Emergency Exit

Not to change Dave's thread on leaving the Arcus, I was intrigued by
Francois' mention of the slippery cockpit floor in the front cockpit of
the Numbus 4DM.Â* I've noticed that in most single seaters I've flown and
I'm happy to say that my Stemme is fully carpeted to the forward
bulkhead which makes for better traction when climbing out. It still
takes a lot of upper body strength and, at 70 years old, I'm working out
3 days per week to try to keep some of that.

Everyone, please make every exit after a flight a simulated exit. Locate
those jettison handles, but don't actuate them.Â* Raise the canopy
normally and then bail out.Â* Release that belt, rise up, and roll over
the side.Â* You should have enough slack in oxygen and water hoses to not
stretch them.Â* But please practice!
--
Dan, 5J

At 14:39 27 June 2018, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not to change Dave's thread on leaving the Arcus, I was
intrigued by
Francois' mention of the slippery cockpit floor in the front
cockpit of
the Numbus 4DM.Â* I've noticed that in most single seaters
I've flown and
I'm happy to say that my Stemme is fully carpeted to the
forward
bulkhead which makes for better traction when climbing
out. It still
takes a lot of upper body strength and, at 70 years old, I'm
working out
3 days per week to try to keep some of that.

Everyone, please make every exit after a flight a simulated
exit. Locate
those jettison handles, but don't actuate them.Â* Raise the
canopy
normally and then bail out.Â* Release that belt, rise up, and
roll over
the side.Â* You should have enough slack in oxygen and
water hoses to not
stretch them.Â* But please practice!
--
Dan, 5J

Or, of course, you could just fly a DG with their NOAH
system? It seems a pity that more manufacturers do not
offer NOAH given the age of many pilots...
I had one in a DG808C and although I never had cause to
use it I miss it.
Dave W

Remember that if you still have an elevator, you may still be able to use negative G to get out of the glider: Jettison canopy, unstrap, the push the stick forward HARD and you should pop right out. If you have time you could even run the trim full forward.. ;^)

Might not work in a spin, but would probably work well in a wind-up hi-speed spiral.

Used a lot during WW2, there is even gun camera film of pilots "popping" out of their cockpits while under attack.

Kirk

On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 5:15:06 PM UTC+1, Dave Walsh wrote:

Or, of course, you could just fly a DG with their NOAH
system? It seems a pity that more manufacturers do not
offer NOAH given the age of many pilots...
I had one in a DG808C and although I never had cause to
use it I miss it.
Dave W

Were there any downsides to the NOAH system in day to day use of the glider - comfort, thickness of the inflatable bag, space for the gas cylinder (I presume there is a cylinder) etc?

John Galloway

At 16:13 29 June 2018, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 5:15:06 PM UTC+1, Dave
Walsh wrote:

Or, of course, you could just fly a DG with their NOAH
system? It seems a pity that more manufacturers do not
offer NOAH given the age of many pilots...
I had one in a DG808C and although I never had cause
to
use it I miss it.
Dave W

Were there any downsides to the NOAH system in day to
day use of the glider
- comfort, thickness of the inflatable bag, space for the gas
cylinder (I
presume there is a cylinder) etc?

John Galloway

No, no downsides to the system in daily use. There is one
extra cable to the pilots seat harness buckle; not really a
problem. There is also the "bag", un-inflated of course,
beneath the seat cushion, again no problem. In use this bag
is inflated by a gas bottle permanently fixed to the airframe
(in the DG it's behind the seat/oxygen bottle). The whole
system just requires the pilot to pull one handle.

There are of course maintenance and inspection costs, I
think the tank and the bag have a 10 year life?

In the unlikely event the pilot activates the system without
jettisoning the canopy the bag deflates. Plenty of detail and
videos on DG's website; just search NOAH.

The DG8800 designs have low cockpit walls. Some gliders
have significantly higher cockpit walls; I'd rate the rear seat
of a DuoDiscus as significantly more difficult to get out of
than a DG800; the front Duo seat is more difficult too.

For the older pilot I think NOAH might be a life saver.

Dave W

On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 7:00:07 PM UTC+1, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 16:13 29 June 2018, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 5:15:06 PM UTC+1, Dave
Walsh wrote:

Or, of course, you could just fly a DG with their NOAH
system? It seems a pity that more manufacturers do not
offer NOAH given the age of many pilots...
I had one in a DG808C and although I never had cause
to
use it I miss it.
Dave W

Were there any downsides to the NOAH system in day to
day use of the glider
- comfort, thickness of the inflatable bag, space for the gas
cylinder (I
presume there is a cylinder) etc?

John Galloway

No, no downsides to the system in daily use. There is one
extra cable to the pilots seat harness buckle; not really a
problem. There is also the "bag", un-inflated of course,
beneath the seat cushion, again no problem. In use this bag
is inflated by a gas bottle permanently fixed to the airframe
(in the DG it's behind the seat/oxygen bottle). The whole
system just requires the pilot to pull one handle.

There are of course maintenance and inspection costs, I
think the tank and the bag have a 10 year life?

In the unlikely event the pilot activates the system without
jettisoning the canopy the bag deflates. Plenty of detail and
videos on DG's website; just search NOAH.

The DG8800 designs have low cockpit walls. Some gliders
have significantly higher cockpit walls; I'd rate the rear seat
of a DuoDiscus as significantly more difficult to get out of
than a DG800; the front Duo seat is more difficult too.

For the older pilot I think NOAH might be a life saver.

Dave W

Obviously in the case of accidental activation it is good that the Noah airbag deflates rapidly but I I guess that means that if you do activate it in an emergency and for some reason you don't get out of the cockpit immediately then the benefit is lost. Unlikely I know.

At 18:17 29 June 2018, wrote:
On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 7:00:07 PM UTC+1, Dave
Walsh wrote:
At 16:13 29 June 2018, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 5:15:06 PM UTC+1,
Dave=20
Walsh wrote:

Or, of course, you could just fly a DG with their
NOAH=20
system? It seems a pity that more manufacturers do
not=20
offer NOAH given the age of many pilots...
I had one in a DG808C and although I never had
cause=20
to=20
use it I miss it.
Dave W

Were there any downsides to the NOAH system in day
to=20
day use of the glider
- comfort, thickness of the inflatable bag, space for the
gas=20
cylinder (I
presume there is a cylinder) etc?

John Galloway

No, no downsides to the system in daily use. There is
one=20
extra cable to the pilots seat harness buckle; not really
a=20
problem. There is also the "bag", un-inflated of
course,=20
beneath the seat cushion, again no problem. In use this
bag=20
is inflated by a gas bottle permanently fixed to the
airframe=20
(in the DG it's behind the seat/oxygen bottle). The
whole=20
system just requires the pilot to pull one handle.
=20
There are of course maintenance and inspection costs,
I=20
think the tank and the bag have a 10 year life?
=20
In the unlikely event the pilot activates the system
without=20
jettisoning the canopy the bag deflates. Plenty of detail
and=20
videos on DG's website; just search NOAH.
=20
The DG8800 designs have low cockpit walls. Some
gliders =20
have significantly higher cockpit walls; I'd rate the rear
seat=20
of a DuoDiscus as significantly more difficult to get out
of=20
than a DG800; the front Duo seat is more difficult too.
=20
For the older pilot I think NOAH might be a life saver.
=20
Dave W

Obviously in the case of accidental activation it is good that
the Noah
air=
bag deflates rapidly but I I guess that means that if you do
activate it
in=
an emergency and for some reason you don't get out of
the cockpit
immediat=
ely then the benefit is lost. Unlikely I know.

Look at the videos on DG's site: you'd be hard put to remain
in the cockpit when the bag inflates!
Dave W

On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 1:00:07 PM UTC-5, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 16:13 29 June 2018, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 5:15:06 PM UTC+1, Dave
Walsh wrote:

Or, of course, you could just fly a DG with their NOAH
system? It seems a pity that more manufacturers do not
offer NOAH given the age of many pilots...
I had one in a DG808C and although I never had cause
to
use it I miss it.
Dave W

Were there any downsides to the NOAH system in day to
day use of the glider
- comfort, thickness of the inflatable bag, space for the gas
cylinder (I
presume there is a cylinder) etc?

John Galloway

No, no downsides to the system in daily use. There is one
extra cable to the pilots seat harness buckle; not really a
problem. There is also the "bag", un-inflated of course,
beneath the seat cushion, again no problem. In use this bag
is inflated by a gas bottle permanently fixed to the airframe
(in the DG it's behind the seat/oxygen bottle). The whole
system just requires the pilot to pull one handle.

There are of course maintenance and inspection costs, I
think the tank and the bag have a 10 year life?

In the unlikely event the pilot activates the system without
jettisoning the canopy the bag deflates. Plenty of detail and
videos on DG's website; just search NOAH.

The DG8800 designs have low cockpit walls. Some gliders
have significantly higher cockpit walls; I'd rate the rear seat
of a DuoDiscus as significantly more difficult to get out of
than a DG800; the front Duo seat is more difficult too.

For the older pilot I think NOAH might be a life saver.

Dave W

Why not just install a ballistic recovery chute in the glider? That's a lot cleaner solution and saves your butt at a lot lower altitude than bailing out.

Why not just install a ballistic recovery chute in the glider? That's a lot cleaner solution and saves your butt at a lot lower altitude than bailing out.

Because "just installing" a ballistic recovery chute for a particular airframe takes a very large amount of structural analysis, determination of proper attach points, modification of the fuselage for installation of the rocket extraction system, blow-off panels to allow for chute extraction, actuation cable routing, FAA approvals for certified aircraft or approvals from an IA to determine the feasibility and installation of a system that very few certified aircraft mechanics (IA or A&P) have any familiarity with. This also applies to sailplanes certified as Experimental.

It's not just strapping a pack to your glider. It is WAY more complex and has to be done right.

I started flying hang gliders with a Ballistic Recovery System (BRS) in 1993. I have had two systems from BRS Inc. and one gas propelled unit from (now defunct) Second Chantz. Never had to actually use either one, but I see the advantages for sailplanes. Unfortunately, the mechanics and complex design issues pretty much eliminate practical retrofits to existing airframes.

It is sad that sailplane manufacturers do not seem to be interested in providing the guidance and engineering to incorporate ballistic recovery systems in current designs.

The only glider I know of that has a factory installed BRS system is the TsT-14 Bonus, which operates in the US with a Desert Aerospace installed retractable jet engine capable of self launch and in-flight engine extension and startup. (www.desertaerospace.com)

There may be other sailplanes incorporating ballistic recovery systems, but I have no knowledge of them. If there are others, perhaps RAS participants can offer their input.

I believe there is also a cable to the canopy jettison lever, you can't "fire the NOAH" until it's armed by dumping the canopy.