Glider cross-country time toward commercial SEL requrements?

I'm trying to determine if any of my glider cross-country time can be
applied to the commercial single engine aeronautical experience
requirements.

FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10
hours must be in airplanes".

FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other things, flight
with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure and "conducted in
an appropriate aircraft".

I've talked to a local examiner, FSDO, and Oklahoma City. All are
saying, "Hmmm, good question! Let me get back to you".

Anyone with experience with this question care to weigh in?

Thanks,
Matt Michael CFIG
Woodstock N20609 "Wanders Wonder"
IS-28B2 Lark N28DG

A "glider" is not defined as an "airplane", as per the FAR's.
Nice try though.

Blake Oliver
44



Matt Michael wrote:

I'm trying to determine if any of my glider cross-country time can be
applied to the commercial single engine aeronautical experience
requirements.

FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10
hours must be in airplanes".

FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other things, flight
with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure and "conducted in
an appropriate aircraft".

I've talked to a local examiner, FSDO, and Oklahoma City. All are
saying, "Hmmm, good question! Let me get back to you".

Anyone with experience with this question care to weigh in?

Thanks,
Matt Michael CFIG
Woodstock N20609 "Wanders Wonder"
IS-28B2 Lark N28DG

Blake Oliver wrote:
A "glider" is not defined as an "airplane", as per the FAR's.

And this affects the following how?

FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10
hours must be in airplanes".

So, 40 hours could be in a sailplane, or in a gyro-copter for that matter.


FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other things, flight
with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure and "conducted in
an appropriate aircraft".

The only question is whether or not the FAA interpretation which
finally comes down will accept the sailplane as "an _appropriate_
aircraft". IMO, 50+ mile x-c in a sailplane is a more significant (and
demanding) x-c flight than it would be in C-150.



Jack

Jack wrote in message .com...

The only question is whether or not the FAA interpretation which
finally comes down will accept the sailplane as "an _appropriate_
aircraft". IMO, 50+ mile x-c in a sailplane is a more significant (and
demanding) x-c flight than it would be in C-150.



Jack

I used about 25 hours of glider flights that resulted in landouts as
qualifying cross country time for my commercial airplane. I also plan
to use lots of glider time towards my ATP if I go for that. I have
confirmed with AFS 600 that this is acceptable to FAA. I also asked
for clarification of what were "inappropriate" aircraft and was told
there were none.

Andy

I raised the same question when recently recertifying to overcome
restrictions on my foreign licence.

As far as I can tell, the FAA requires you to log all flights whether
or not these are cross-country flights. Cross-country hours for
glider flights appears on FAA application forms and is obviously
relevant (even though it's not a requirement for a US glider rating).
However, there is no definition of glider cross-country other than
that in 61.1, which requires a landing at a field other than the
departure one.

I pointed out to my local FSDO that glider cross-country flights
normally do not involve a landing at other than the departure point,
so how do we log them? They told me that if I was flying out of
gliding range of my home field, I could consider that a cross-country
flight in a glider and log it that way. However, only cross-country
flights that involve a landing away from home can be used for airplane
or rotorcraft ratings (25 or 50 miles). you need to make sure you log
this too.

This is a gray area open to interpretation, so expect dfferent answers
depending on who you ask.

Mike

ASW 20 (& Cessna 172)

Mike.. a good response with only one error..

The FAA does not require you to log any flights...
you are required to log flights to show proof of recent currency... example,
3 landings in last 90 days to carry passengers.. or night landing currency..
and you are required to log any flight time used to accumulate required
hours towards an additional rating..

so in reality.. you could log what you need to show 3 landings in 90 days,
or 6 approaches in 6 months with holding and tracking for an IFR currency..
and that would be it..

you would not be required to log flights even if you flew every day.
FAR 61.51 (a)

BT

"Mike Stringfellow" wrote in message
om...
I raised the same question when recently recertifying to overcome
restrictions on my foreign licence.

As far as I can tell, the FAA requires you to log all flights whether
or not these are cross-country flights. Cross-country hours for
glider flights appears on FAA application forms and is obviously
relevant (even though it's not a requirement for a US glider rating).
However, there is no definition of glider cross-country other than
that in 61.1, which requires a landing at a field other than the
departure one.

I pointed out to my local FSDO that glider cross-country flights
normally do not involve a landing at other than the departure point,
so how do we log them? They told me that if I was flying out of
gliding range of my home field, I could consider that a cross-country
flight in a glider and log it that way. However, only cross-country
flights that involve a landing away from home can be used for airplane
or rotorcraft ratings (25 or 50 miles). you need to make sure you log
this too.

This is a gray area open to interpretation, so expect dfferent answers
depending on who you ask.

Mike

ASW 20 (& Cessna 172)

Matt Michael wrote:
FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at
least 10 hours must be in airplanes".

Blake Oliver wrote:
A "glider" is not defined as an "airplane", as per the FAR's.
Nice try though.

Please note that only 10 of the 50 hours must be in an "airplane", the
other 40 must be in an "aircraft". Those 40 hours could be in a
"glider". However, one must land at least 50 nm away from the point of
departure in order for a flight to count as "cross-country. So, if one
has 40 hours worth of cross-country flights where you land at least 50
nm away from home, you'll only need 10 hours of "airplane" cross-country
time to meet the requirements.

For example, I have about 750 hours of cross-country flight time in
gliders (most well over 200 miles), but nearly all ended up back at
home, or less than 25 miles away. So I only have 20 hours or so of
glider cross-country time from the FAA's perspective.

Marc

"Blake Oliver" wrote in message
news:hORod.383895$wV.186005@attbi_s54...
A "glider" is not defined as an "airplane", as per the FAR's.
Nice try though.

Huh?

1) 61.129 (a) (ii) states that 10 of the 50 hours must be in airplanes, which
clearly implies that the other 40 may be done in some other type of aircraft
other than an "airplane".

2) 61.1 (b) (3) "Cross-country time means-" makes no mention of the word
"airplane".

Did I miss something? I don't see how there could possibly be any question
that glider cross-country time would apply towards the Commercial SEl rating as
long as it otherwise meets the definition (50-mile straight-line distance,
pilotage etc.).

Vaughn

"Vaughn" wrote in message ...
"Blake Oliver" wrote in message
news:hORod.383895$wV.186005@attbi_s54...
A "glider" is not defined as an "airplane", as per the FAR's.
Nice try though.

Huh?

1) 61.129 (a) (ii) states that 10 of the 50 hours must be in airplanes, which
clearly implies that the other 40 may be done in some other type of aircraft
other than an "airplane".

2) 61.1 (b) (3) "Cross-country time means-" makes no mention of the word
"airplane".

Did I miss something? I don't see how there could possibly be any question
that glider cross-country time would apply towards the Commercial SEl rating as
long as it otherwise meets the definition (50-mile straight-line distance,
pilotage etc.).

Vaughn


The term "appropriate aircraft" in 61.1 does leave room for
interpretation. Appropriate to the catagory and class of the rating
sought? Appropriate perhaps meaning with an N number?

One examiner I asked said he didn't know but that if I showed up with
40 hours of balloon cross country he'd tell me to take a hike.

I don't want to show up for a checkride and find out I need 40 more
hours with that infernal contraption screaming away up front.

MM

Matt Michael wrote:

One examiner I asked said he didn't know but that if I showed up with
40 hours of balloon cross country he'd tell me to take a hike.

But is a balloon an aircraft at all? In German, at least, balloons don't
even "fly"!

Stefan