Night Flying

Hey Folks....

I go outside after dark a lot, usually to enjoy the outside air. Last night
I realized that I don't generally see a lot of GA at night in my area. I am
curious as to the feeling of this group on flying at night. I am talking
about VFR.

For discussion purposes, I know that when I take a trip in my car, I enjoy
driving at night. It is cooler, there is less traffic, the car seems to
perform better...etc. I would say that many of those same things would
apply to flying at night. Now, I realize the safety issues, and that isn't
the point of my question (for all of you that are going to say DON"T FLY AT
NIGHT). But, for performance issues, and other things, I wonder how many
pilots have considered flying a cross county at night vs. during the day.

Fred

When its dark, you can't see anything. One of the things that attracts
people to flying is being able to see things from high above.

Also, during my first night cross country back when I was getting my
private, I remember my instructor telling me "If we lose an engine,
we're pretty much screwed"

Right.....

I realize why a lot of VFR pilots don't fly at night. But, considering the
route....obviously it would be safer to fly some routes than others.

I mentioned that to a Horizon pilot once....the "not being able to see
anything" deal. He brought up the argument that over urban areas, you
actually can see quite a bit. You can see the cities, the freeways, runways
from distances, things like that. Now, that is in a populated area, for
instance out here in the Pacific Northwest. But say in Montana, once you
leave the vicinity of your airport, you are in the dark for sure, and
runways are few and far between.

But what about flying areas that are a bit more congested where you don't
have mountains to run into, and lots of airports around. I can't say that I
wouldn't consider it when planning a cross country........but it would
certainly depend on the route, terrain, and things like that. From the
Seattle area here, one could fly the I-5 corridor to Portland, and have an
out (the freeway) in case of an engine failure, but also many lighted strips
along the way, as well as many cities for landmarks......

Fred

"buttman" wrote in message
ups.com...
When its dark, you can't see anything. One of the things that attracts
people to flying is being able to see things from high above.

Also, during my first night cross country back when I was getting my
private, I remember my instructor telling me "If we lose an engine,
we're pretty much screwed"

"Fred Choate" wrote in message
...
Right.....

I realize why a lot of VFR pilots don't fly at night. But, considering
the route....obviously it would be safer to fly some routes than others.

I mentioned that to a Horizon pilot once....the "not being able to see
anything" deal. He brought up the argument that over urban areas, you
actually can see quite a bit. You can see the cities, the freeways,
runways from distances, things like that. Now, that is in a populated
area, for instance out here in the Pacific Northwest. But say in Montana,
once you leave the vicinity of your airport, you are in the dark for sure,
and runways are few and far between.

But what about flying areas that are a bit more congested where you don't
have mountains to run into, and lots of airports around. I can't say that
I wouldn't consider it when planning a cross country........but it would
certainly depend on the route, terrain, and things like that. From the
Seattle area here, one could fly the I-5 corridor to Portland, and have an
out (the freeway) in case of an engine failure, but also many lighted
strips along the way, as well as many cities for landmarks......

Fred,

As a strictly fair-weather (VFR only!) pilot flying a very modest airplane,
I simply have a separate set of personal minimums for night flying. They're
different from my rules for day flying.

* No flights over areas with little or no lights on the ground
* No flights over the mountains
* No flights over water
* No flights over wilderness
* No flights if there's ANY clouds or significant potential for clouds along
or near my route
* No flights if there's a small (or narrowing) temp/dew point spread
* No flights without full tanks (I rarely fly down much beyond 1/3 tanks in
the day time - at night I will not go below 1/2)

That does indeed limit me quite a bit. That's fine with me.

In fact, I pretty much limit myself to the I-5 corridor. I've done flights
along this corridor from Bellingham to Portland, and feel comfortable doing
so - as long as it's completely clear out and looks like it's definitely
going to stay that way. From a practical standpoint, almost all my night
flying has been coming home along this route. So if I have a long day
flying over the Cascades to central Washington and know I might not make it
home before dark, I will plan things to make sure that by the time it gets
dark, I'm within sight of I-5, and will follow it home. Usually I end up
landing at Kelso or Chehalis for fuel as darkness falls, and come home in
full darkness for the last hour. I see plenty of places where I couild land
in a pinch along that route.

I agree, on a clear night, as long as my criteria are met, flying at night
is beautiful and serene. If my criteria can't be met, I won't do it. I've
talked with guys that don't think twice about routinely charging off over
the mountains in a little plane just like mine, but I won't do it.

Hope that helps.

David Herman
N6170T 1965 Cessna 150E
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.com

I enjoy flying at night, if it's over terrain I'm familiar with, and if the
weather is clear. Over congested airspace, like California's central
valley, you can see other aircraft many miles away, and it's reassuring to
see airport beacons spotted across the landscape in all directions. Night
over mountains isn't fun unless you have plenty of altitude and can see the
airport beacon in the next valley -- within gliding range. In clear weather
it's easy to follow major highways from town to town.

Night over water is even more intimidating.

Spatial disorientation is a potential problem, and so are optical illusions.
On a long night solo, battling fatigue, I once mistook Sirius for an
oncoming landing light and took evasive action.

If you're going to make a habit of this, it's a good idea to get the
instrument rating.

Seth
Comanche N8100R

I fly SEL at night (in IMC as well) because sometimes my schedule
demands it. It's also often really beautiful at night: moonlit
landscapes or cloud tops are wonderful, and it's rarely so dark there's
no view. FWIW, however, it's the unusual case for me to fly at night
under VFR. I almost always file an IFR flight plan (but do that in the
daytime, too: it's much easier getting into busy airports that way).

Then there's this: those with an instrument rating will understand.
Sometimes the ceiling is flat and just above minimums with good
visibility below. There's nothing quite as exciting to be in the clouds
at night, break out at 200 feet and have the runway and lead in lights
right there, right where they should be. A half mile at an average
speed of say 80 means you go from solid instruments to in the flare in
20 seconds. The best word I can think of for that experience is "neat!"

That sounds pretty cool.....I will be going for instrument rating later this
year, or early next year. I am looking forward to it.
As for breaking out and seeing the runway lights.....does that ever give you
a sight problem? Going from instruments to those bright lights all of a
sudden?

Fred

"Tony" wrote in message
ups.com...
I fly SEL at night (in IMC as well) because sometimes my schedule
demands it. It's also often really beautiful at night: moonlit
landscapes or cloud tops are wonderful, and it's rarely so dark there's
no view. FWIW, however, it's the unusual case for me to fly at night
under VFR. I almost always file an IFR flight plan (but do that in the
daytime, too: it's much easier getting into busy airports that way).

Then there's this: those with an instrument rating will understand.
Sometimes the ceiling is flat and just above minimums with good
visibility below. There's nothing quite as exciting to be in the clouds
at night, break out at 200 feet and have the runway and lead in lights
right there, right where they should be. A half mile at an average
speed of say 80 means you go from solid instruments to in the flare in
20 seconds. The best word I can think of for that experience is "neat!"

Fred, runway and run-in lights near the threshold just aren't bright
enough to interfere with night vision. You'd also think changing focal
distance from 30 inches to the instruments to fractional miles might be
a problem, but I hadn't noticed it being an issue. What you will find
interesting is flying an ILS to minimums in a cross wind. As you get
close to your decision height and start including the windscreen in
your instrument scan -- I'm sure you'll be looking straight ahead --
you'll be surprised to see the runway lights way over to the side. It's
not a big deal, but after a while you'll find yourself noticing you're
10 or 15 degrees off the runway heading as you get lower, and you'll
start looking off to the correct side to see the threshold lights.

Fred Choate wrote:

That sounds pretty cool.....I will be going for instrument rating later this
year, or early next year. I am looking forward to it.
As for breaking out and seeing the runway lights.....does that ever give you
a sight problem? Going from instruments to those bright lights all of a
sudden?

It can if you are in a large crab angle or don't have the wings level at
break-out, however, if you try to think about this beforehand and
picture where the runway will be when you break out, it seldom is a problem.


Matt

buttman wrote:

When its dark, you can't see anything. One of the things that attracts
people to flying is being able to see things from high above.

You've obviously never flown over a snow-covered landscape with a full moon
above.

Regarding a full moon, one of my most memorable night-time flights involved
flying an Angel Flight mission from Philadelphia (Wings Field) to Boston
(Bedford).

We were over central Long Island when we spotted a lone thunderstorm cell
about 75 miles off, somewhere near Providence, Rhode Island. Lightening,
moving up and down the cell, lit it up beautifully. As if this weren't
enough, the full moon appeared and slowly rose above the cell. Surreal.

My camera was safely on my desk at home.

--
Peter


















----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----