396 plus COM or GNS x30???

Hi all,

I was a lurker of these groups for some time, before asking my first
question not too long back on a COM issue I was/am having. Since then,
I have tried to stay active in keeping up on the posts and have tried
to add input, where I think I can add value, but I am well aware of how
subjective that is... ;-)

I am getting familiar with the regular posters and have found great
benefit in hearing some of the discussions on a lot of interesting
topics. The hot topic these days seems to be tne Garmin 396!

I have a very low-end IFR setup, and have only 1 COM, which currently
is giving me fits! Not having a back-up (other than the handheld) is
driving me crazy. I've been drooling over the GNS 430 for a couple of
years now, mostly because it would provide me with a secondary COM and
it would give me (in my understanding) legal IFR DME, which is another
valuable tool I'm lacking in my plane.

Like so many others, I don't have money to burn, so I spend more time
dreaming and planning, than I do actually making things happen, but I
would be more willing to find a way to make the money work, if I could
actually stabalize on "one" good plan in the first place!

So I started thinking.... (no wise cracks please) Portable handheld
with the many wis-bang features that it does have (downloadable Wx,
terrain display, etc.) and take the difference and put it towards 2nd
COM and possibly DME (for shooting those DME required approaches)
OR.... Panel mount with built in COM, legal DME and do Wx and terrain
planning the hard way???

Other benefits to the handheld are using it in the car, just watching
Wx at home (for fun), identifying the hot fishing spots on Eagle Lake
and being able to get back to them quickly... ;-)

I guess I'm asking the "what would you do?" question? How valuable is
a certified, panel mounted, IFR GPS, vs. the handheld with all of it's
really cool capabilities???

Keep in mind my parameters a (current configuration)
1. Single COM (assume it's operable...;-)
2. No DME
3. Standard DG
4. Two VOR's (only one with glide-slope)
5. Other "basic" components, required for IFR flight

Thanks in advance for any input or discussion!

Best Regards,
Todd

Buy used equipment.
Panel mounted COM and GPS.
The handheld is for backup and providing information not required by the
regs.

I have a 'low ball' setup in my Maule. A certified GNC300XL (kind of
second generation)with comm, one NavCom with slope, and that's it. The
300XL must go used for a song but the installation is the real cost.
Gives you DME and ADF equivalence and GPS approaches. I'm putting the
396 in for weather and GPS backup.

john smith wrote:
Buy used equipment.
Panel mounted COM and GPS.
The handheld is for backup and providing information not required by the
regs.

Good suggestions!

Geez! I get serious tunnel-vision at times, especially when it's
related to a big purchases... For two years, I've been looking at the
GNS430, with its vivid colors, moving map, built in COM, and had my
mind directed towards that as the target! I briefly researched a few
of the lower end IFR certified GPS's, but to be honest, I don't know
that I was even aware of the built in COM factor outside of the GNS
family? For some reason, I had it in my mind that I had to go with a
$7k GPS to get that capability.

I just did a quick search and found an overhauled GNC300XL for about
$2600 (and saw another for around $2300), which like you said, gives me
COM, DME and GPS approaches! I'm assuming that would come with the G/S
indicator, but I'm not sure??? Just buying a second COM and DME would
put me above that cost! Then, picking up a 396 for weather, TFR's,
etc. for another $2500... All that and still $2k under the GNS430!

Obviously this opens up many possibilities and much more research is
required, but at least it gets my head out of the tunnel. Thanks!

If others have had similar experiences as far as minimal original IFR
configuration and gone the same route as discussed here, I would be
very interested in hearing what equipment you went with and what your
experience and satisfaction has been. There are so many choices! I'd
like to give myself at least 2 or 3 options and then get a nice list of
pro's and con's going before I start figuring out how I'm going to pay
for all of this! ;-)

Best Regards,
Todd

"three-eight-hotel" wrote:

I just did a quick search and found an overhauled GNC300XL for about
$2600 (and saw another for around $2300), which like you said, gives
me
COM, DME and GPS approaches!

Bewa the GNC300 will require the installation of external
annunciation, etc. which will add considerably to the cost. The 430
does not require this. Make sure you get estimates from your avionics
shop for various installations before you commit to anything.

I'm assuming that would come with the G/S
indicator, but I'm not sure???

No. That will add more cost if your current indicator cannot be
used--it would add more cost with the 430, too..

Just buying a second COM and DME would
put me above that cost! Then, picking up a 396 for weather, TFR's,
etc. for another $2500... All that and still $2k under the GNS430!

If others have had similar experiences as far as minimal original IFR
configuration and gone the same route as discussed here, I would be
very interested in hearing what equipment you went with and what your
experience and satisfaction has been.

Five years ago I went with the older, used GPS idea. After the fact, I
wished I'd gone ahead and gotten a 430.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Dan Luke wrote:

"three-eight-hotel" wrote:

I just did a quick search and found an overhauled GNC300XL for about
$2600 (and saw another for around $2300), which like you said, gives
me
COM, DME and GPS approaches!


Bewa the GNC300 will require the installation of external
annunciation, etc. which will add considerably to the cost. The 430
does not require this. Make sure you get estimates from your avionics
shop for various installations before you commit to anything.

Excellent advice.

Five years ago I went with the older, used GPS idea. After the fact, I
wished I'd gone ahead and gotten a 430.

I was headed down that path. In fact I bought nearly everything I needed
on eBay (except I couldn't find an annunciator). I hauled it all down to
the avionics shop for an estimate and, as usual, I was shocked. We had a
long talk--pros, cons, etc--and I ended up putting in a 430. If you
explore this you may be surprised at the final cost--integration is a
beautiful thing.

I sold everything I had bought back on eBay except for a KX-155 which
became my second nav/com, a KI-206 indicator and a couple splitters. I
did end up spending more money but I haven't regretted the decision at all.

--Rick

Dan,

Five years ago I went with the older, used GPS idea. After the fact, I
wished I'd gone ahead and gotten a 430.


Can't those be had used by now?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

We have a dedicated DME box in our Cherokee. So, I can do VOR/DME or LOC/DME
approaches easily.
Question (with the understanding it varies from unit to unit):

Where does the DME info come from when using an IFR cert GPS? Correct me if
I'm wrong, but a box like the GNC300XL doesn't have NAV, so there's no
"tuning" of the localizer on the GPS. What do you "dial in" to get a DME
readout? Do you have to change your waypoint from the airport you were
navigating to?
I flew behind a 530/430 a couple times. On those boxes you can actually
"tune in" the localizer. The 530 displays a GPS distance in a dedicated
field on one of the pages. The 430 did not.

I'm sure it's a matter of just getting familiar with the box you're flying
behind, but to me, having a dedicated DME box in my panel gives me one less
thing to do.

Now, having said that, last weekend I think my partner & I discovered the
glideslope in our KI214 (i think that's the right number. it's the old nav
head hooked to an older King 170-B) was flagged during some practice
approaches. Ugh. We had the same problem last year, & spend $1,700 getting a
replacement put in. If this one has shot craps, I want to look for some
newer equipment. I've always been lusting after a 430, but it's a bit out of
reach at the moment.

Sorry for rambling. My wallet hurts.

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
om...
I have a 'low ball' setup in my Maule. A certified GNC300XL (kind of
second generation)with comm, one NavCom with slope, and that's it. The
300XL must go used for a song but the installation is the real cost.
Gives you DME and ADF equivalence and GPS approaches. I'm putting the
396 in for weather and GPS backup.

john smith wrote:
Buy used equipment.
Panel mounted COM and GPS.
The handheld is for backup and providing information not required by the
regs.

On 27-Aug-2005, "Steven Barnes" wrote:

Where does the DME info come from when using an IFR cert GPS?


From the GPS. Approach certified GPS can be used in lieu of DME for
determining position on an instrument approach that requires DME.
--
-Elliott Drucker

wrote:

On 27-Aug-2005, "Steven Barnes" wrote:


Where does the DME info come from when using an IFR cert GPS?



From the GPS. Approach certified GPS can be used in lieu of DME for
determining position on an instrument approach that requires DME.



An enroute/terminal GPS can also be used on an approach for necessary
DME information. I use my GX55 for such purposes. Since no DME shacks
are in the database I use other navaids or intersections as my DME fix,
such as VOR's or the outer markers.