Under the heading of Truly Weird

Betcha can't top this one:

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4022990&nav=23Ku

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

Jay Beckman wrote:
Betcha can't top this one:

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4022990&nav=23Ku

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

How does one have an "expired" pilots license?

wrote:
Betcha can't top this one:

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4022990&nav=23Ku

How does one have an "expired" pilots license?


I'm always highly suspicious of articles like this one. You note they threw the
word "stalled" out there, but then they used it in reference to the engine. So
which was it? Did the engine quit or did the aircraft stall?

I'd expect the "expired license" referred to is actually his medical. No doubt
that was the cause of this accident.

When the NTSB says it is against the law to remove anything from a plane crash,
I doubt that includes bodies. Of course, I don't really understand why the
family didn't leave the pilot's body where it lay... unless it was in danger of
burning. A little odd...

I really wish they'd run the text of articles like this past their helicopter
pilot to see if it makes sense, aviation-wise, *before* they air it. It's
obvious they're clueless about flying.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
. com...
wrote:
Betcha can't top this one:

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4022990&nav=23Ku

How does one have an "expired" pilots license?


I'm always highly suspicious of articles like this one. You note they
threw the word "stalled" out there, but then they used it in reference to
the engine. So which was it? Did the engine quit or did the aircraft
stall?

I'd expect the "expired license" referred to is actually his medical. No
doubt that was the cause of this accident.

When the NTSB says it is against the law to remove anything from a plane
crash, I doubt that includes bodies. Of course, I don't really understand
why the family didn't leave the pilot's body where it lay... unless it was
in danger of burning. A little odd...

I really wish they'd run the text of articles like this past their
helicopter pilot to see if it makes sense, aviation-wise, *before* they
air it. It's obvious they're clueless about flying.

A lot of pilots are in that position too so why beat up on journalists?

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:40:02 +0100, "Chris"
wrote in ::


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
.com...
wrote:

I'm always highly suspicious of articles like this one. You note they
threw the word "stalled" out there, but then they used it in reference to
the engine. So which was it? Did the engine quit or did the aircraft
stall?
[...]
I really wish they'd run the text of articles like this past their
helicopter pilot to see if it makes sense, aviation-wise, *before* they
air it. It's obvious they're clueless about flying.

A lot of pilots are in that position too so why beat up on journalists?


Pilots do not hold themselves out as sources of accurate information
as a vocation; journalists do.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:40:02 +0100, "Chris"
wrote in ::


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in
message
r.com...
wrote:

I'm always highly suspicious of articles like this one. You note they
threw the word "stalled" out there, but then they used it in reference
to
the engine. So which was it? Did the engine quit or did the aircraft
stall?
[...]
I really wish they'd run the text of articles like this past their
helicopter pilot to see if it makes sense, aviation-wise, *before* they
air it. It's obvious they're clueless about flying.

A lot of pilots are in that position too so why beat up on journalists?


Pilots do not hold themselves out as sources of accurate information
as a vocation; journalists do.

No No No Noooo. Journalist write stories that sell papers advertising spots
etc. Its a bit naive to think they are about telling the truth. Besides what
truth? There is not the time to properly research anything.

How many stories have you come across where you have the inside knowledge
and how many times do you say that's not quite right. I bets its near 100%.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...


Pilots do not hold themselves out as sources of accurate information
as a vocation; journalists do.

Journalists are a source of accurate information if "sheeple" allow them to
be.

However, unless a story hits really close to home, "sheeple" don't care.

We bridle at terms like "the engine stalled and the plane crashed" beacause
we know better. The majority of "sheeple" could care less.

I confess that I get "sheeple-ish" and "MEGO" (my eyes glaze over) when the
news turns to stories on The Fed, or international monetary polices, etc...

IMO, it boils down to two main factors:

1) Usenet is narrowcasting at it's absolute narrowest.

2) TV news is broadcasting at it's absolute broadest.

Never the twain shall meet.

Regards,

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
I really wish they'd run the text of articles like this past their helicopter
pilot to see if it makes sense, aviation-wise, *before* they air it. It's
obvious they're clueless about flying.

Believe it or not the guy who wrote the AZCentral article posted by
Michael, Thomas Ropp, is generally pretty fair and accurate when it
comes to aviation related reporting. He covers the Scottsdale Airport
beat for the Arizona Republic. I understand from friends at an FBO at
SDL that he's had some flight training, although I don't see him in the
FAA database (Thomas Ropp could be a Pseudonym).

I guess I should send him an email sometime and thank him for all the
times he DIDN'T say that "witnesses heard the airplane stall and then
it fell from the sky." I did send him an angry email once regarding an
article about Scottsdale airport neighbors complaining about helicopter
noise. The article was very accurate and unbiased, but it was
accompanied by a "photo-illustration" of a Robinson R-22 that had been
Photo-Shopped into a residential street scene. It appeared as though
the helicopter was flying down a residential street 30 feet above the
driveways. The next day, the editorial section of the paper contained
the original R-22 photo, which had been taken of the helicopter about
30 feet over the ramp at SDL with the tower in the background. Never
got a reply from him, but I'll bet the accompanying photo was not his
work anyway.

-R

More info he

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...necrash25.html

Surgeon in trouble for removing son's body from plane crash

Police found debris of craft - no body

Thomas Ropp
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 25, 2005 12:00 AM

In a case federal aviation authorities describe as "one of the weirdest
ever," a Paradise Valley surgeon could face federal and state charges
after removing the body of his dead son from a plane crash.

Jacob Lundell, 21, died late Saturday afternoon while doing
touch-and-go maneuvers at the Casa Grande Municipal Airport, police
said.

His father, Dr. Mark Lundell, and a brother witnessed the crash,
authorities said.

Casa Grande police arrived a few minutes later to find the scene of an
obvious fatality - but no body.

"There was a lot of blood and even brain matter in the cockpit," Casa
Grande police Lt. Steve Cantrell said.

Officers said that a witness saw a red pickup truck pull up to the
crash site and that two men removed the body. When the witness asked
the men if he should call 911, the older man said no, they could handle
it, police said.

Case Grande police got the identifying N-number off the plane tail and
located a Paradise Valley address.

They contacted Paradise Valley police who arrived at the Lundell home
seconds before a red pickup pulled up with the body.

Larry Scott, assistant Paradise Valley police chief, said other family
members were present in the driveway, including Deborah Lundell, the
victim's mother.

"They were all in shock," Scott said.

Deborah Lundell told Channel 3 (KTVK) that her husband brought their
son's body home because "he knew my grieving, he knew my heartache; he
knew I needed to see him before they took him away."

Mark Lundell did the right thing in allowing the family to say goodbye,
she told the TV station.

"He may have legally not done the right thing, but morally he did the
right thing," she added.

The body was taken to the Maricopa County Medical Examiner's Office for
an autopsy.

Donn Walker of the FAA's Los Angeles regional office said their
investigator showed up shortly after the Casa Grande police and was
baffled.

"He called up and said we just had a plane crash but can't find the
body," Walker said. "It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever
heard."

Walker said that the victim had neither a pilot's license nor a valid
student pilot's certificate and that the plane, a 1961 Nord owned by
the Lundells, was not registered.

Walker said the FAA is investigating possible federal violations,
including the removal of the body from the crash site.

Andrea Esquer, a spokeswoman for the Arizona Attorney General's Office,
would not comment on the state's position, pending the outcome of the
probe by U.S. authorities.

There are several Arizona statutes that address such situations. One
requires that human body cannot be removed from the scene of a
suspicious death unless a county medical examiner gives permission.

The Lundells have five children. They have appeared in newspaper
articles in connection with their love of flying.

When contacted by The Arizona Republic, the family declined to comment

On 25 Oct 2005 21:55:53 -0700, wrote in
.com::

There are several Arizona statutes that address such situations. One
requires that human body cannot be removed from the scene of a
suspicious death unless a county medical examiner gives permission.

What is the legal definition of a "suspicious death"? Is it just
short of suspected homicide? If so, I fail to see how that would
apply in this case.