Cost to install a canopy?

Our club is looking into a new canopy for a Grob 103 Twin Astir. We received
an estimate from a well-known repair shop: $2,000 for the canopy and 50
hours of labor to install. I'm new to this field - I fly 'em, I don't fix
'em. But I'm having a hard time imagining what steps must be involved to
consume 50 hours. Hinge, latches... what am I missing?

Gluing, sanding, gelcoating.

Roger Worden wrote:
Our club is looking into a new canopy for a Grob 103 Twin Astir. We received
an estimate from a well-known repair shop: $2,000 for the canopy and 50
hours of labor to install. I'm new to this field - I fly 'em, I don't fix
'em. But I'm having a hard time imagining what steps must be involved to
consume 50 hours. Hinge, latches... what am I missing?

First you have to remove the old plexy hopefully without any damage on
the original frame. Than probably fill the surface to provide smooth
contact. Glue the plexy to the frame. Cut it to fit and probably fill
and send before paint. Than you still have to sand and polish the new
surface. You shouldn't damage the new plexy during the whole procedure.
I don't say it's 50 hours, maybe more

/Jancsika

Shows what I do NOT know! I was assuming a new canopy would include the
frame, hinge, latch etc. so it could be installed as a unit. I haven't been
out to look at the Grob since this issue came up, but I seem to remember it
as a fairly simple structure. I'm wondering whether Grob sells a new
canopy-frame-hinge-latch combo for less. Factory labor to assemble new
things in an repetitive process is usually less expensive than a craftsman
in the field repairing a similar unit... whether it's a television, a car
engine, or whatever, major repair is usually more expensive than replacement
with a factory-assembled unit. But maybe such assemblies are not available
from Grob, or maybe the typical economics don't hold true in this market.


"Jancsika" wrote in message
...
Roger Worden wrote:
Our club is looking into a new canopy for a Grob 103 Twin Astir. We
received
an estimate from a well-known repair shop: $2,000 for the canopy and 50
hours of labor to install. I'm new to this field - I fly 'em, I don't
fix
'em. But I'm having a hard time imagining what steps must be involved to
consume 50 hours. Hinge, latches... what am I missing?

First you have to remove the old plexy hopefully without any damage on
the original frame. Than probably fill the surface to provide smooth
contact. Glue the plexy to the frame. Cut it to fit and probably fill
and send before paint. Than you still have to sand and polish the new
surface. You shouldn't damage the new plexy during the whole procedure.
I don't say it's 50 hours, maybe more

/Jancsika

Hi Roger,

I would not bet on buying a completely new canopy from Grob, because:

1. First of all I do not think that the economy of scale holds for
glider manufacterers since the number of aircraft built is quite low.
Next to that, the canopy-glass is made by Mecaplex another company. The
glass is said to be especially difficult to make and thereofre it is
expensive.

2. Furthermore, Grob will most probably also need your fuselage when
installing a new canopy because of fit and new, or other, hinge
locations

3. Grob is not out of business as an aerospace company, but my guess is
that they haven't built gliders for over 15-20 years now. Spare-parts
come from LTB Lindner now (southern Germany).

I am very sorry for you, but I have to agree with the posts above.
Replacing your canopy will not be cheap. But if you have just one clean
crack or a piece that has come out then I would suggest to glue it
back, although making that pretty is not at all easy

Kind regards

Diederick Joosten
The Netherlands

Earlier, Roger Worden wrote:

Factory labor to assemble new things in
an repetitive process is usually less
expensive than a craftsman in the field
repairing a similar unit...

... or maybe the typical economics don't
hold true in this market.

The latter, quite definitely. Even in the highest-volume glider
"factory," craftsmen doing things onesey-twosey hold the central part
of the process. I think that none of the big players make more than a
few hundred units a year. That may sound like a lot, but it's a far cry
from the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of units you'd see
on a car or motorcycle production line.

The bottom line is that even in the factory environment manufacuring
glider parts is an expensive proposition. It may be less expensive than
field repairs and fabrication, but not by much, and business and
transportation expenses more than make up the difference.

Yes, it is definitely faster and more efficient to make a canopy and
frame assembly in the factory. They have the tools and processes and
procedures in place to do it correctly in the fewest possible hours.
However, with production rates so low, and with the installed base so
small, it simply does not make economic sense for them to dedicate part
of their production to spares manufacturing. For a lot of the parts,
they'd end up with a lot of expensive shelf space dedicated to
expensive spare parts for which there is no definite demand. That makes
sense when there are tens of thousands of units with an established
history of spares requirements. But with a few hundred units in the
field there simply is not enough data to build a realistic model of the
spares requirements.

Another problem is that, here in the US at least, the factory is a long
way away. That means expensive transatlantic shipping of a delicate
assembly.

Thanks, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24

Bob Kuykendall wrote:
Another problem is that, here in the US at least, the factory is a long
way away. That means expensive transatlantic shipping of a delicate
assembly.

I heard a rumor that some guy is working hard at establishing a
"factory" for a sleek-looking glider right here in the US. ;-)

The facts so far: I have been amazed at how many "original" parts I
have been able to buy for my 30 year old glider (Schreder RS-15) from
this same guy! Keep it up, Bob.

Regards,

-Doug Hoffman

Earlier, Doug Hoffman wrote:
Bob Kuykendall wrote:

I heard a rumor that some guy is working hard at establishing a
"factory" for a sleek-looking glider right here in the US. ;-)

It's been rough going, but we're plugging along!

Thanks again, Bob K.

I think your estimate is pretty close to correct and what you may
expect.......labor rates may vary from one repair shop to another but
generally you can expect to pay something near the cost for the canopy equal
in labor costs....or between $2000-$2500 (estimated)
the labor involved is rather extensive if done properly.....removing all of
the old acrylic (Plexiglas) breaking chipping and grinding off where the old
canopy was glued in place, repairing and preparing the canopy frame to
accept the new acrylic, fitting the new canopy (really good canopies like
Mecaplex or similar will be factory trimmed pretty close to fit, others
might require a lot of extra trimming (and time) then re-gluing the new
acrylic to the frame, all quite fragile work as well.......then repainting
(gelcoat) the frame (a portion of the acrylic is also painted where it is in
the frame work) and then re-fitting to the glider.....Most repair shops also
want the glider in their shop to do the work since the frame will take a
different set if not mounted on the glider when the new acrylic is
installed..so you can see that the work is a bit intensive and deserves the
time and effort .........you also want to be certain that the canopy you are
installing is the proper one and of the highest quality, since an inferior
canopy will cost the same labor (or more) to install and since the acrylic
is (should be) protective coated, even the repair shop won't know what the
optics or quality of the canopy is until the job is 99% complete and they
then remove the coating.......I, BTW do not do the repairs.....but do
support many of the better glider repair shops in the USA.....I hope you do
too...we need them!
Best regards
Tim
Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com

"Roger Worden" wrote in message
. com...
Our club is looking into a new canopy for a Grob 103 Twin Astir. We
received
an estimate from a well-known repair shop: $2,000 for the canopy and 50
hours of labor to install. I'm new to this field - I fly 'em, I don't fix
'em. But I'm having a hard time imagining what steps must be involved to
consume 50 hours. Hinge, latches... what am I missing?

Since you state that you are "looking into" a new canopy, can we assume that
the old one is not broken?
If it is not broken, it may be possible to revive the old one with one of
the repair kits like Micro-mesh. Available from aircraft supply place,
possibly Tim Mara.

--
Hartley Falbaum


"Roger Worden" wrote in message
. com...
Our club is looking into a new canopy for a Grob 103 Twin Astir. We
received
an estimate from a well-known repair shop: $2,000 for the canopy and 50
hours of labor to install. I'm new to this field - I fly 'em, I don't fix
'em. But I'm having a hard time imagining what steps must be involved to
consume 50 hours. Hinge, latches... what am I missing?