Welding question -

In preparation for doing some simple OA welding on a rudder, I've been
practicing on some 4130 scrap. Since there is filler where it's not
structurally important, I"ve been filing the excess material. All
except one and it's as hard as if I were trying to file stainless.

Is this an indication that I was using an oxidizing flame on that
sample? - MIke

In article ,
Michael Horowitz wrote:

In preparation for doing some simple OA welding on a rudder, I've been
practicing on some 4130 scrap. Since there is filler where it's not
structurally important, I"ve been filing the excess material. All
except one and it's as hard as if I were trying to file stainless.

Is this an indication that I was using an oxidizing flame on that
sample? - MIke

If you fill with 4130, the weld will be hard -- and brittle. That is why
you use regular welding rod on 4130 -- the thicker material in the weld
relieves stress and keeps things good.

'regular' welding rod?
What's that?
Not a 4130 rod for welding 4130? - Mike

In article .com,
"Mike" wrote:

'regular' welding rod?
What's that?
Not a 4130 rod for welding 4130? - Mike

Nope

4130 rod for welding 4130 will require heat treat, or it will be brittle
and crack. Use standard, off-the-shelf welding rod from your local
welding supplier.

Hi Orval,

I think what the OP is trying to get at, is there is no standard
off the shelf welding rod.

The most sold is probably 6010/6011. It requires a stitch welding
technique, and tends to stick when starting. It makes strong deep
all position welds that tend to be ugly. Not for beginners.

The easiest to use is 6013, but it makes really pretty looking, flat
position, non xray quality welds, and has little penetration.

The most common low hydrogen rod is 7018, but it is tricky to use,
and must be stored in an oven. It is used almost exclusively for all
position, structural steel welding.

And then there is a host of SS rods that some people like because of
their easy welding characteristics, and the toughness of the weld.

So, what do you mean when you state off-the-shelf? I would recommend
7018, and a whole bunch of practice.

-Chuck

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article .com,
"Mike" wrote:

'regular' welding rod?
What's that?
Not a 4130 rod for welding 4130? - Mike

Nope

4130 rod for welding 4130 will require heat treat, or it will be brittle
and crack. Use standard, off-the-shelf welding rod from your local
welding supplier.

Chuck..
Decent advice for stick welding, but the question was about gas welding.
There are a number of good filler rods for steel, and for small puddles
with small tips, one of the best is ER70sXXX mig wire. This lets you
place filler rod in the weld without chilling the puddle too hard with a
larger diameter rod. 4130 rod in 4130 welds isn't the best idea
and a softer filler material is advised. Rods for mild steel are preferred.

Have a great day

Scott


"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Hi Orval,

I think what the OP is trying to get at, is there is no standard
off the shelf welding rod.

The most sold is probably 6010/6011. It requires a stitch welding
technique, and tends to stick when starting. It makes strong deep
all position welds that tend to be ugly. Not for beginners.

The easiest to use is 6013, but it makes really pretty looking, flat
position, non xray quality welds, and has little penetration.

The most common low hydrogen rod is 7018, but it is tricky to use,
and must be stored in an oven. It is used almost exclusively for all
position, structural steel welding.

And then there is a host of SS rods that some people like because of
their easy welding characteristics, and the toughness of the weld.

So, what do you mean when you state off-the-shelf? I would recommend
7018, and a whole bunch of practice.

-Chuck

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article .com,
"Mike" wrote:

'regular' welding rod?
What's that?
Not a 4130 rod for welding 4130? - Mike

Nope

4130 rod for welding 4130 will require heat treat, or it will be brittle
and crack. Use standard, off-the-shelf welding rod from your local
welding supplier.

Oh, I forgot to mention, the welded material gets just as hot as the
weld, so if you have cracking problems that require heat treatment, you
are going to have problems regardless of the rod you use. Most of the
time, cracking problems are hydrogen embrittlement, and are prevented
by using a low hydrogen rod, such as the 7018,8018,9018... series of rods.

-Chuck

This question , about welding with O,A is right . or should I say the
answer . I have noticed while welding I tend to use just a little richer
Acetylene. mixture to keep from oxidizing the weld . the bubbles and so on
and even cracking is the result of my running too much oxygen .Too much heat
will also do the same thing. now what I mean by that is too big a flame for
the job.. This usually happens when I try and weld a thick piece to a thin
piece , seems one tends to get too much heat ( the thin ) and pop and bubble
and crack . I also have found , for myself of course , that welding with a
4130 rod to 4130 frame I will get cracks in the weld , and even on the sides
.. seems to me that as the metal cools it draws up and that's when I get the
cracks . Going back over my weld with the torch before it get too cold
sometimes helps . but I have found that using a soft metal rod works best
on a hard metal weld . Using a coat hanger wire once to patch a frame was
proof enough for me. I started buying soft metal rods to weld 4130 and 4140
.. But I am not a tickler for exact and perfect welding . An aircraft bolt is
soft and will stretch allot before it breaks as compared to a grade 8
hardened bolt . It's just I was reading and learning from all of you and I
remembered from my experiences .I pray I did not over step my bounds here .
Thanks for allowing me to butt in . wesmarso
"Chuck Harris" wrote in message
...
Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article .com,
"Mike" wrote:

'regular' welding rod?
What's that?
Not a 4130 rod for welding 4130? - Mike

Nope 4130 rod for welding 4130 will require heat treat, or it will be
brittle and crack. Use standard, off-the-shelf welding rod from your
local welding supplier.

Oh, I forgot to mention, the welded material gets just as hot as the
weld, so if you have cracking problems that require heat treatment, you
are going to have problems regardless of the rod you use. Most of the
time, cracking problems are hydrogen embrittlement, and are prevented
by using a low hydrogen rod, such as the 7018,8018,9018... series of rods.

-Chuck