new twin concept from Cirrus

I'd read several references about Cirrus developing the P-Jet, which I
assume would seat four including pilot. This got me thinking about
other segments they might explore. Considering the success of their
SR20 & SR22 series, what are the chances of a SR-derived twin? A
four-place fixed-gear composite twin (or, potentially a stretched
6-place variant) available with either the IO-360 or IO-550 if you
really wanna boogie.
My guess is such a plane with the 310hp motors should have a 210-220kt
cruise based on the Baron's advertised 200kt cruise with 300hp Contis.
The 200hp engines would make for a 180-190kt cruiser, based on the
Seminole's advertised 168kt cruise with 180hp Lycomings. The CAPS
system might be an even bigger selling point in a twin considering the
Vmc rollover potential, although that situation normally happens right
after takeoff and the acft may not have gained enough altitude for the
system to be effective. Let the pocket-protector types figger out how
to make it work at low alts. They'd also have to ditch the single lever
power controls (which I've read many pilots don't care for) and add
separate prop controls, or some kind of electric feathering control.
I don't think a Cirrus twin is too much of a stretch considering how
quickly they've caught up to Cessna after only 6(?) years building
certified acft. If the Klapmiers can make a business case for a twin I
think they'd sell quite well, even considering the cost of 100LL right
now. Hmmm, maybe Thielert diesels...

rambling mode off

"Kingfish" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'd read several references about Cirrus developing the P-Jet, which I
assume would seat four including pilot. This got me thinking about
other segments they might explore. Considering the success of their
SR20 & SR22 series, what are the chances of a SR-derived twin? A
four-place fixed-gear composite twin (or, potentially a stretched
6-place variant) available with either the IO-360 or IO-550 if you
really wanna boogie.
My guess is such a plane with the 310hp motors should have a 210-220kt
cruise based on the Baron's advertised 200kt cruise with 300hp Contis.
The 200hp engines would make for a 180-190kt cruiser, based on the
Seminole's advertised 168kt cruise with 180hp Lycomings. The CAPS
system might be an even bigger selling point in a twin considering the
Vmc rollover potential, although that situation normally happens right
after takeoff and the acft may not have gained enough altitude for the
system to be effective. Let the pocket-protector types figger out how
to make it work at low alts. They'd also have to ditch the single lever
power controls (which I've read many pilots don't care for) and add
separate prop controls, or some kind of electric feathering control.
I don't think a Cirrus twin is too much of a stretch considering how
quickly they've caught up to Cessna after only 6(?) years building
certified acft. If the Klapmiers can make a business case for a twin I
think they'd sell quite well, even considering the cost of 100LL right
now. Hmmm, maybe Thielert diesels...

rambling mode off


If I was in the market for a light twin I would take a long hard look at the
Diamond twin, seems like a nice aircraft and uses what, 8 GPH *total* or
close to it!

----------------------------------------------
DW

Yeah, I thought about the DA42, but the Cirrus would have a big speed
advantage, hypothetically. The Diamond site says 12.5gph at 80% power
which I think gives you around 170kts based on their range circle. I
couldn't scroll down to read the whole spec page so I don't know what
they're advertising for cruise speed of the diesel engined plane. I
didn't see anything on Diamond's page about the IO-360 engined DA42
either. That is a cool looking plane though.

I don't see any economic advantage to adding a twin to their product
line. Their singles already offer "twin-like" speeds without the expense
of the second engine and systems. I don't see any evidence that there is
demand for a new piston twin.
The development and certification costs alone would require that the
selling price be in the VLJ range.

John S. wrote:

I don't see any economic advantage to adding a twin to their product
line. Their singles already offer "twin-like" speeds without the
expense
of the second engine and systems. I don't see any evidence that there
is
demand for a new piston twin.

All good points and tough to argue. It was more of a "what if"
excercise. I'm sure if there was a good business case for a twin
Klapmier would be all over it.

The development and certification costs alone would require that the selling price be in the VLJ range.

Not so sure about that, though. Diamond's DA42 Twinstar lists for under
500k.

The development and certification costs alone would require that the
selling price be in the VLJ range.

Not so sure about that, though. Diamond's DA42 Twinstar lists for under
500k.

I have not looked closesly, but I believe there is a large parts
commonality between the DA-40 and the DA-42.
This is similar to the Adam 500 and the Adam 700.
Anytime you can leverage existing parts into a new design, you reduce
costs.
The seat attach fittings on the current King Air's are the same as the
Twin Beech model 18's.

"Kingfish" wrote in message
oups.com...
John S. wrote:

I don't see any economic advantage to adding a twin to their product
line. Their singles already offer "twin-like" speeds without the
expense
of the second engine and systems. I don't see any evidence that there
is
demand for a new piston twin.

All good points and tough to argue. It was more of a "what if"
excercise. I'm sure if there was a good business case for a twin
Klapmier would be all over it.

I suspect he's up to his eyeballs already.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
I don't see any economic advantage to adding a twin to their product
line. Their singles already offer "twin-like" speeds without the expense
of the second engine and systems. I don't see any evidence that there is
demand for a new piston twin.

The purpose of a twin is load capacity.

The development and certification costs alone would require that the
selling price be in the VLJ range.

And the maintenance $$ on those is a lot higher.

I would be putting my money on a diesel engine. That would be huge in
Europe. With the price of gas going up in the US, it would be a big hit
here also.

Mike Schumann

"Kingfish" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'd read several references about Cirrus developing the P-Jet, which I
assume would seat four including pilot. This got me thinking about
other segments they might explore. Considering the success of their
SR20 & SR22 series, what are the chances of a SR-derived twin? A
four-place fixed-gear composite twin (or, potentially a stretched
6-place variant) available with either the IO-360 or IO-550 if you
really wanna boogie.
My guess is such a plane with the 310hp motors should have a 210-220kt
cruise based on the Baron's advertised 200kt cruise with 300hp Contis.
The 200hp engines would make for a 180-190kt cruiser, based on the
Seminole's advertised 168kt cruise with 180hp Lycomings. The CAPS
system might be an even bigger selling point in a twin considering the
Vmc rollover potential, although that situation normally happens right
after takeoff and the acft may not have gained enough altitude for the
system to be effective. Let the pocket-protector types figger out how
to make it work at low alts. They'd also have to ditch the single lever
power controls (which I've read many pilots don't care for) and add
separate prop controls, or some kind of electric feathering control.
I don't think a Cirrus twin is too much of a stretch considering how
quickly they've caught up to Cessna after only 6(?) years building
certified acft. If the Klapmiers can make a business case for a twin I
think they'd sell quite well, even considering the cost of 100LL right
now. Hmmm, maybe Thielert diesels...

rambling mode off

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
.net...
I would be putting my money on a diesel engine. That would be huge in
Europe. With the price of gas going up in the US, it would be a big hit
here also.

It was my (mis?)understanding that a diesel is, HP/lb, heavier than a
standard aircraft engine, especially when getting into the higher (over 250)
HP models. Correct?
--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO


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