Why didn't the Cessna 337 make it?

My instructor has over 100 hrs on the Skymaster, and he always said
that the problem with the Skymaster crashes were untrained piltos who
didn't take imemdiate actions when needed. He mentioned the
Synchrophaser gauge, that would show you which engine was doing the
work. IT either pointed forward or aft, so looking at it, you'd know
which engine is not working. He also mentioned that to keep the aft
engine cool he would run up the aft engine after running the front,
then shut it off, taxi with front engine on, and start the aft when
he is rady for take off before entering the runway. It's common
practice for many airlines, so it shoudln't be a problem for a
properly trained Skymaster pilot...

Seems like a couple people took off and forgot to start the rear motor.

-Robert


PP-DQA wrote:
My instructor has over 100 hrs on the Skymaster, and he always said
that the problem with the Skymaster crashes were untrained piltos who
didn't take imemdiate actions when needed. He mentioned the
Synchrophaser gauge, that would show you which engine was doing the
work. IT either pointed forward or aft, so looking at it, you'd know
which engine is not working. He also mentioned that to keep the aft
engine cool he would run up the aft engine after running the front,
then shut it off, taxi with front engine on, and start the aft when
he is rady for take off before entering the runway. It's common
practice for many airlines, so it shoudln't be a problem for a
properly trained Skymaster pilot...

That's why when flying a Skymaster you should always advance the rear
engine throttle first during the takeoff roll. Then add the front
engines power...

Ben
www.haaspowerair.com


Robert M. Gary wrote:
Seems like a couple people took off and forgot to start the rear motor.

-Robert


PP-DQA wrote:
My instructor has over 100 hrs on the Skymaster, and he always said
that the problem with the Skymaster crashes were untrained piltos who
didn't take imemdiate actions when needed. He mentioned the
Synchrophaser gauge, that would show you which engine was doing the
work. IT either pointed forward or aft, so looking at it, you'd know
which engine is not working. He also mentioned that to keep the aft
engine cool he would run up the aft engine after running the front,
then shut it off, taxi with front engine on, and start the aft when
he is rady for take off before entering the runway. It's common
practice for many airlines, so it shoudln't be a problem for a
properly trained Skymaster pilot...

"PP-DQA" wrote

He also mentioned that to keep the aft
engine cool he would run up the aft engine after running the front,
then shut it off, taxi with front engine on, and start the aft when
he is rady for take off before entering the runway. It's common
practice for many airlines, so it shoudln't be a problem for a
properly trained Skymaster pilot...

Airliners shut off an engine when taxiing, then start it only when ready for
takeoff? Really?? That would shorten the life of the engine, wouldn't it,
with start cycles being part of overhaul criteria? Do they only do that for
long holds?

This one is new to me. I've never been on an airliner that did that, I
don't believe. If they did, I didn't notice it.

Any other airline pilots verify this?
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
shut off an engine when taxiing, then start it only when ready for
takeoff? Really?? That would shorten the life of the engine, wouldn't it,
with start cycles being part of overhaul criteria? Do they only do that for
long holds?

This one is new to me. I've never been on an airliner that did that, I
don't believe. If they did, I didn't notice it.

Any other airline pilots verify this?
--
Jim in NC

I believe that, rather than "shut off an engine for taxiing" they
simply delay starting one
(or more, as appropriate) until takeoff is iminent. That way there is
less time in service
and no more start cycles than would otherwise occur.

David Johnson

Speculation: The training market is the 800lb gorilla in GA. Almost
every certified design is going to get a lot of business from schools
and whatnot. This includes twins too, where people are always trying
to get the coveted multi-engine ratings.

Enter the Skymaster: It's a twin, which means it has the cost of a
twin (in fuel and overhaul costs and insurance, etc). Unlike most
other twins, though, when you do your multi training and checkride in
it, you have a limitation in your logbook to inline multis, right? Eg,
you can't go and fly a 310 without another checkride.

With this in mind, I would guess that most schools, upon learning about
the restrictions, passed on them because all those aspiring airline
pilots wouldn't be interested in wasting time with inline multis.

Basically, I'm guessing that safety benefits of an inline are
overshadowed by the practical usefulness of the logged time towards an
ATP (in the eyes of the schools and students, a significant market).

/conjecture

Thoughts?

Ben Hallert
PP-ASEL

Ben Hallert wrote

With this in mind, I would guess that most schools, upon learning about
the restrictions, passed on them because all those aspiring airline
pilots wouldn't be interested in wasting time with inline multis.

Basically, I'm guessing that safety benefits of an inline are
overshadowed by the practical usefulness of the logged time towards an
ATP (in the eyes of the schools and students, a significant market).

The F-4 Phantom II pilots returning from Vietnam with a centerline thrust
rating didn't seem to have a problem finding airline jobs. :-)

Bob Moore

Get a better and more qualified instructor. 100 hours is
very little time in a particular model, but this guy is
either ignorant or you didn't understand him.

The syncrophaser is used to get both props turning at the
same speed and with the blades in phase to reduce noise. In
any multiengine aircraft, you identify a failed engine in
positive steps. The problem with the in-line airplanes is
that only reduced take-off performance (reduced climb)
alerts the pilot to an engine failure.

The Skymaster failed because is was a poor passenger
airplane that lacked creature comport, baggage areas and it
was noisy.

Starting and stopping an engine will cause more wear and
tear that just operating normally. The best practice on the
Skymaster would be to run the engines at whatever rpm was
needed to taxi and when parked, run the idle at 1000-1200
rpm so that the front prop would blow air back and the rear
engine would cool and have a steady temperature.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"PP-DQA" wrote in
message ...
| My instructor has over 100 hrs on the Skymaster, and he
always said
| that the problem with the Skymaster crashes were untrained
piltos who
| didn't take imemdiate actions when needed. He mentioned
the
| Synchrophaser gauge, that would show you which engine was
doing the
| work. IT either pointed forward or aft, so looking at it,
you'd know
| which engine is not working. He also mentioned that to
keep the aft
| engine cool he would run up the aft engine after running
the front,
| then shut it off, taxi with front engine on, and start the
aft when
| he is rady for take off before entering the runway. It's
common
| practice for many airlines, so it shoudln't be a problem
for a
| properly trained Skymaster pilot...
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
Get a better and more qualified instructor. 100 hours is
very little time in a particular model, but this guy is
either ignorant or you didn't understand him.

Actually, you're displaying the ignorance here.

The syncrophaser is used to get both props turning at the
same speed and with the blades in phase to reduce noise.

Correct, that is the primary purpose. However, its range of command is
limited - generally 25-50 RPM. Many also have an indicator (the needle
the instructor is talking about) which tells you which way to make the
adjustment to bring the props within the range of command of the
synchrophaser. Since the prop governors used in piston airplanes are
proportional-only controllers (no integral component) the RPM on the
failed engine WILL drop - and it will drop by enough to take it out of
the range of command, though not enough to be obvious (or even
noticeable) on the average GA tach. In that case, the needle will
become an effective indicator not only than an engine has failed, but
which one.

In
any multiengine aircraft, you identify a failed engine in
positive steps. The problem with the in-line airplanes is
that only reduced take-off performance (reduced climb)
alerts the pilot to an engine failure.

Only if he ingores the information provided by the synchrophaser.

Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
ups.com...
Jim Macklin wrote:
Get a better and more qualified instructor. 100 hours is
very little time in a particular model, but this guy is
either ignorant or you didn't understand him.

Actually, you're displaying the ignorance here.

The syncrophaser is used to get both props turning at the
same speed and with the blades in phase to reduce noise.

Correct, that is the primary purpose. However, its range of command is
limited - generally 25-50 RPM. Many also have an indicator (the needle
the instructor is talking about) which tells you which way to make the
adjustment to bring the props within the range of command of the
synchrophaser. Since the prop governors used in piston airplanes are
proportional-only controllers (no integral component) the RPM on the
failed engine WILL drop - and it will drop by enough to take it out of
the range of command, though not enough to be obvious (or even
noticeable) on the average GA tach. In that case, the needle will
become an effective indicator not only than an engine has failed, but
which one.

In
any multiengine aircraft, you identify a failed engine in
positive steps. The problem with the in-line airplanes is
that only reduced take-off performance (reduced climb)
alerts the pilot to an engine failure.

Only if he ingores the information provided by the synchrophaser.

Michael


Hi Michael,

I've got some Skymaster time, and I'd have to go with Jim. I've used the
tach to determine the failed engine, but have never used the synchrophaser
as you describe, nor have I heard of anyone who does. If that little wheel
in there is spinning to the left(at high rpm), does that tell you it is the
front, or the rear engine? Also in the event of an engine failure, the
manual tells you to turn off the synchrophaser so that it doesn't limit,
even slightly, the rpm of the operating powerplant. It may even be on the
"before takeoff" checklist. In my case we only blew off one cylinder head on
the rear engine. There was no indication on the panel, just a "BAM" as
reported by a rear seat passenger just after rotation, and a report from the
tower of "heavy black smoke, from the rear engine". We climbed to pattern
altitude, shut down the rear engine(smoke turned white), and landed
normally.

Al

p.s. This was on a trip to Seattle with 6 pilots in the airplane. My flight
instructor was in the right seat, and I was flying. Immediately after
landing, I turned off the active at the first intersection, and as I was
braking to a complete halt, went through my "Mixture/Master/Mags" shutdown,
and turned to the right to tell the flight instructor to evacuate. He wasn't
there. He was about 75 feet away, lighting a cigarrette. He had bailed out
just after we left the active. No way you'd catch him in no crashed
airplane.