Arrow annual woes

Our 1979 Arrow IV is in the shop for its annual inspection. As usual, the
inspection itself went smoothly, but it uncovered some maintenance items
that will run into several AMUs. Here are the top three uglies:

1) The inspection part of Piper Service Bulletin 1161 resulted in
identification of cracks in both affected wing ribs. That's the bad news.
The good news is that the cracks are in locations that will allow the use of
the Piper repair kits, which Piper stocks. Jack Allison has posted on this
NG his horror story of replacing the ribs when the cracks precluded use of
the repair kits, so in a way we feel lucky. Cost estimate for the SB
compliance with the repair kits is about 1.3 AMU, including parts and the
initial inspection.

2) The hydraulic power pack has to be replaced or overhauled. We can't feel
too bad about this one because it's the original (1979) unit. 27 years is a
more than reasonable service life. A rebuilt replacement goes for 0.8 AMU,
which is about the cost of overhauling ours. We will do a swap in order to
avoid downtime for an overhaul.

3) The biggie! The support structure under the wing walk is cracked in
several places and needs to be replaced. This is apparent from a slight
"oilcanning" of the wing skin in the wing walk area when we step on it.
Repair will necessitate removing the right wing, a bunch of drilling to
remove the old structure, replacing it with a new assembly (cost unknown)
and replacing the wing. our mech estimates (roughly) the job will take
about 24 hrs of labor and cost, with parts, around 2 AMUs. It's not really
a safety issue as the structure only supports and reinforces the wing walk
-- it is not part of the primary wing structure. But left unrepaired the
outer skin could crack, resulting in a much bigger repair job. Our shop has
never done this job before but one of the assistant A&Ps has, and the
estimate is largely based upon his knowledge. Have any of you other
PA-28/PA-32 owners had this problem?

The rest of the identified maintenance items are the usual collection of
individually minor items -- a seal here, a gasket there -- but of course
collectively they typically add up to about 1 AMU.

Glad this is going to be split 3 ways!


-Elliott Drucker

wrote:

Glad this is going to be split 3 ways!

I empathize with your pain.

Annuals on older aircraft seem to be one big craps game where we owners
hope, at best, to walk away from the table only one AMU down. Rarely does
that appear to happen.

--
Peter

The first annual we had on our '79 "J" model Mooney (Please no flames
about what an annual is or isn't) was a little over 9 AMU's... This year
was a little less than 5 AMU's. We felt lucky... Next year we'll shoot
for 2.5...

The biggie for us this year was a 1.9 AMU fuel servo replacement. I must
say that 43H runs noticably better with the new servo... Other than that
we were pretty squawk free... The thing that I noticed is that a bunch
of little squawks can run into an AMU or two quickly...

Sorry to hear about your pain...

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ UMP

Peter R. wrote:
wrote:


Glad this is going to be split 3 ways!


I empathize with your pain.

Annuals on older aircraft seem to be one big craps game where we owners
hope, at best, to walk away from the table only one AMU down. Rarely does
that appear to happen.

I had leaks in the hydraulic pack of my Arrow IV when I bought it. I have an
excellent A&P that suggested that it might only be the seals, and you can
replace the seals for far less than the cost you mentioned.

Do you have electric trim, and if so how is it working. Mine works
intermittently. The clutch always catches, but the motor sometimes doesn't
have enough power to move the trim. I was wondering if this was typical for
the Arrow IV.

The wing walk area on my plane gives just a little, but I notice it. I step
lightly, and hope for the best. 2 AMUs seems high, but what do I know?

wrote in message
news:ex1kg.13606$OL2.9653@trnddc06...
Our 1979 Arrow IV is in the shop for its annual inspection. As usual, the
inspection itself went smoothly, but it uncovered some maintenance items
that will run into several AMUs. Here are the top three uglies:

1) The inspection part of Piper Service Bulletin 1161 resulted in
identification of cracks in both affected wing ribs. That's the bad news.
The good news is that the cracks are in locations that will allow the use
of
the Piper repair kits, which Piper stocks. Jack Allison has posted on
this
NG his horror story of replacing the ribs when the cracks precluded use of
the repair kits, so in a way we feel lucky. Cost estimate for the SB
compliance with the repair kits is about 1.3 AMU, including parts and the
initial inspection.

2) The hydraulic power pack has to be replaced or overhauled. We can't
feel
too bad about this one because it's the original (1979) unit. 27 years is
a
more than reasonable service life. A rebuilt replacement goes for 0.8
AMU,
which is about the cost of overhauling ours. We will do a swap in order
to
avoid downtime for an overhaul.

3) The biggie! The support structure under the wing walk is cracked in
several places and needs to be replaced. This is apparent from a slight
"oilcanning" of the wing skin in the wing walk area when we step on it.
Repair will necessitate removing the right wing, a bunch of drilling to
remove the old structure, replacing it with a new assembly (cost unknown)
and replacing the wing. our mech estimates (roughly) the job will take
about 24 hrs of labor and cost, with parts, around 2 AMUs. It's not
really
a safety issue as the structure only supports and reinforces the wing walk
-- it is not part of the primary wing structure. But left unrepaired the
outer skin could crack, resulting in a much bigger repair job. Our shop
has
never done this job before but one of the assistant A&Ps has, and the
estimate is largely based upon his knowledge. Have any of you other
PA-28/PA-32 owners had this problem?

The rest of the identified maintenance items are the usual collection of
individually minor items -- a seal here, a gasket there -- but of course
collectively they typically add up to about 1 AMU.

Glad this is going to be split 3 ways!


-Elliott Drucker

In article ,
"soxinbox" wrote:

Do you have electric trim, and if so how is it working. Mine works
intermittently. The clutch always catches, but the motor sometimes doesn't
have enough power to move the trim. I was wondering if this was typical for
the Arrow IV.

I never use the electric trim on any airplane I fly.
I like to feel the resistance increase or decrease as I set it to the
correct spot.
The autopilot uses the electric trim, so checking it is part of each
preflight.

On 14-Jun-2006, "soxinbox" wrote:

Do you have electric trim, and if so how is it working. Mine works
intermittently. The clutch always catches, but the motor sometimes doesn't
have enough power to move the trim. I was wondering if this was typical
for the Arrow IV.


Yes, our has electric trim. I use it all the time, and it works fine. Once
while flying in extremely cold air (-29 C as I recall) it got very slow, but
all of the controls were feeling quite stiff that day. Our AP is only
single axis, so the electric trim is only engaged by the pilot.

-Elliott Drucker

In article ex1kg.13606$OL2.9653@trnddc06,
wrote:

Repair will necessitate removing the right wing, a bunch of drilling to
remove the old structure, replacing it with a new assembly (cost unknown)
and replacing the wing.

Is the Arrow wing one piece (like a Mooney) or two (like an RV)?

On 14-Jun-2006, john smith wrote:

Is the Arrow wing one piece (like a Mooney) or two (like an RV)?


On PA-28 airplanes, including the Arrow, the wing spar sections bolt onto
the fuselage carry-through section. Apparently, removing a wing is not that
big a deal. I presume there must be a hard point under the fuselage where
the weight of the plane can be supported while the wing is removed, since
the main gear mount on the wing, or else it might be necessary to use slings
from an overhead.

-Elliott Drucker

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 03:29:58 GMT,
wrote:


On 14-Jun-2006, john smith wrote:

Is the Arrow wing one piece (like a Mooney) or two (like an RV)?


On PA-28 airplanes, including the Arrow, the wing spar sections bolt onto
the fuselage carry-through section. Apparently, removing a wing is not that
big a deal. I presume there must be a hard point under the fuselage where
the weight of the plane can be supported while the wing is removed, since
the main gear mount on the wing, or else it might be necessary to use slings
from an overhead.

-Elliott Drucker

we built a wooden cradle/cart that supported the fuselage skin at the
beefy sections where it was secured to fuselage formers/other major
structure. had one for PA28's and another for PA32's.

jacked up the whole ship and rolled the cradle under it, lowered it
gently onto the cradle. used wing jacks to support the wings, had to
leave one under the heavy side if you were only removing one.

it's not a huge deal, but getting the wing bolts out/in can suck at
times.

cradles were used to hold the interiors yanked out of the other birds
when they were doing freight duty.

luckily, they spent more time with seats on 'em than fuselages...

TC

3) The biggie! The support structure under the wing walk is cracked in
several places and needs to be replaced. This is apparent from a slight
"oilcanning" of the wing skin in the wing walk area when we step on it.
Repair will necessitate removing the right wing, a bunch of drilling to
remove the old structure, replacing it with a new assembly (cost unknown)
and replacing the wing. our mech estimates (roughly) the job will take
about 24 hrs of labor and cost, with parts, around 2 AMUs. It's not
really
a safety issue as the structure only supports and reinforces the wing walk
-- it is not part of the primary wing structure. But left unrepaired the
outer skin could crack, resulting in a much bigger repair job. Our shop
has
never done this job before but one of the assistant A&Ps has, and the
estimate is largely based upon his knowledge. Have any of you other
PA-28/PA-32 owners had this problem?

This problem has been discussed extensively in the Cherokee Chat, on the
Cherokee Pilots Association website. There are literally dozens of guys
there who have been down this road, and can (and will) answer any of your
questions.

In fact, tomorrow we're heading to their three-day convention, which is
this coming weekend. It is held annually at Tan-Tar-A resort, in Osage
Beach, MO. This year's keynote speaker is none other than Phil Boyer, AOPA
president.

It's a great organization. If you want to know ANYTHING about Cherokees, I
recommend joining this group.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"