SSA OLC Region for Flight Claim

Several SSA OLC competitors in the recent Region 6 South contest at
Caesar Creek OH appear to have entered their flights in their respective
home regions (other than Region 6), even though no point on the flight
tracks lies outside of Region 6. There are other instances where pilots
have listed their flights in a different region than both the region in
which the flight was flown and their home club region. Usually this is
an adjacent region, indicating perhaps too little care with the
pull-down menu choices.

One may correct an entry made no more than four weeks ago. Instructions
he

http://tinyurl.com/r2lcb


Objections ("complaints" or "partner-checks") to uncorrected entries can
be lodged he

http://tinyurl.com/qqqsv


Anonymous complaints will not be processed.



Jack

If I am a Region 12 (So Cal) pilot flying in Region 11 (Nevada, among
other places), I must enter the flight in Region 11? Could you cite the
rule that says that?



Jack wrote:

Several SSA OLC competitors in the recent Region 6 South contest at
Caesar Creek OH appear to have entered their flights in their respective
home regions (other than Region 6), even though no point on the flight
tracks lies outside of Region 6. There are other instances where pilots
have listed their flights in a different region than both the region in
which the flight was flown and their home club region. Usually this is
an adjacent region, indicating perhaps too little care with the
pull-down menu choices.

One may correct an entry made no more than four weeks ago. Instructions
he

http://tinyurl.com/r2lcb


Objections ("complaints" or "partner-checks") to uncorrected entries can
be lodged he

http://tinyurl.com/qqqsv


Anonymous complaints will not be processed.



Jack

Greg Arnold wrote:
If I am a Region 12 (So Cal) pilot flying in Region 11 (Nevada, among
other places), I must enter the flight in Region 11? Could you cite the
rule that says that?



I'll bite (since no explicit rule exists as you suggest....)

-Quoting the rules (see last sentence):

6. Flight claiming
Fliht claims will be only accepted at www.onlinecontest.org. Claimes
have to be submitted by 24:00 (midnight) on the Tuesday following the
flight local time of the finish point.
The IGC-file has to be submitted as part of the flight claim.
By submitting the flight the participant certifies that the flight took
place as claimed.

-end quote

If you submit, you are stating the flight "took place as claimed", and
since specifiying the region is part of the claim you must specify the
correct region, else you are not following the rules.

Let the guy who makes the best flight in the region win that region....
or is this stating the obvious?

.... not a lawyer......

wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:
If I am a Region 12 (So Cal) pilot flying in Region 11 (Nevada, among
other places), I must enter the flight in Region 11? Could you cite the
rule that says that?



I'll bite (since no explicit rule exists as you suggest....)

-Quoting the rules (see last sentence):

6. Flight claiming
Fliht claims will be only accepted at www.onlinecontest.org. Claimes
have to be submitted by 24:00 (midnight) on the Tuesday following the
flight local time of the finish point.
The IGC-file has to be submitted as part of the flight claim.
By submitting the flight the participant certifies that the flight took
place as claimed.

-end quote

If you submit, you are stating the flight "took place as claimed", and
since specifiying the region is part of the claim you must specify the
correct region, else you are not following the rules.

The SeeYou claim form has a place to state the region, but it doesn't
say whether this is the region of the pilot or the region of the flight.
At the present time, most of the Region 12 pilots flying in Region 11
are claiming as Region 12.



Let the guy who makes the best flight in the region win that region....
or is this stating the obvious?

... not a lawyer......

Greg Arnold wrote:
If I am a Region 12 (So Cal) pilot flying in Region 11 (Nevada, among
other places), I must enter the flight in Region 11? Could you cite the
rule that says that?

The info below is cut-and-pasted directly from the OLC site

http://tinyurl.com/qqqsv

(note specifically under "Reason for complaint...: No fix in the region").


----------------
FLIGHT COMPLAINT

Dear Competitor,
the 'Partner-Check' is a very important aspect of the OLC system.
Whenever you find a faulty flight claim, please use the 'Patner-Check'
to inform us about the irregularity.
It is not denigrating but it helps the OLC-team to remove errors from
the scoring, as we have no time to check all the flights in detail.
Our time permits only random checks of flight claims.
We hope to have listed all possible irregularities in the complaint
form below, but if we have missed something send a mail to :
.
If you have a complaint about a flight , please complete the from
below, and send it to us by pressing 'Send' in the from.

Our OLC-Team


Information on the flight


Select the OLC:

Date of flight (dd.mm.yy):

Name of competitor:

Scored distance in km (xxxx.xx):

Reason for complaint, multiple choices possible:
DAeC-Index wrong, the correct one is:
Flight twice in scoring
No fix in the region
Departure time wrong
Finish time wrong
Means of propulsion active during soaring performance
Airspace infringement

Information on me:
Given name and name:
E-Mail for questions:
Telephone:


Anonymous complaints will not be processed.
------------------------------------------


I think others will agree that details of OLC rules have not been
clearly presented in the past, though SSA-OLC Administrator Doug Haluza
has gone a long way recently toward making the SSA OLC more accessible
to all of us. If I am wrong in my assessment of this issue, I apologize
for adding to the confusion. I believe this is an area that needs
further clarification.

We have 12 Regions because we have very different soaring conditions and
opportunities in this great expanse called the USA. It seems to me
completely illogical that wave flights in Region 11 or ridge flights in
Region 2 should be considered in comparison to thermal flights in Region
6, for example, when establishing Regional standings for clubs and
individuals.

These errors sometimes result from keyboard errors in data entry. They
also result when a pilot based in one region travels to a different
region for a contest, training, or recreation and does not realize that
a flight anywhere may be entered for the pilot and for his club but
should not be entered for a region outside the one in which it was flown.

Entrants, and their competitors, should be concerned about both sources
of inappropriate and misleading information.


Jack


One may correct an entry made no more than four weeks ago.
Instructions he

http://tinyurl.com/r2lcb


Objections ("complaints" or "partner-checks") to uncorrected entries
can be lodged he

http://tinyurl.com/qqqsv

Jack wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:
If I am a Region 12 (So Cal) pilot flying in Region 11 (Nevada, among
other places), I must enter the flight in Region 11? Could you cite
the rule that says that?

snip

I think others will agree that details of OLC rules have not been
clearly presented in the past, though SSA-OLC Administrator Doug Haluza
has gone a long way recently toward making the SSA OLC more accessible
to all of us. If I am wrong in my assessment of this issue, I apologize
for adding to the confusion. I believe this is an area that needs
further clarification.

Maybe not: I can't find any reference to the use of Region in the
USA-OLC, so I don't think Region has any significance at this point.
There are Champion listings, and Statistics by Airfield, Club, All
Flights, and Best Flights, but none by Region.

We have 12 Regions because we have very different soaring conditions and
opportunities in this great expanse called the USA. It seems to me
completely illogical that wave flights in Region 11 or ridge flights in
Region 2 should be considered in comparison to thermal flights in Region
6, for example, when establishing Regional standings for clubs and
individuals.

Maybe I'm missing something, but where are the Regional Standings
listed? I don't see them on the SSA-OLC page or mentioned in the rules.
My understanding is the Region designation may be used at some later
date, but I don't see any use of it now.

These errors sometimes result from keyboard errors in data entry. They
also result when a pilot based in one region travels to a different
region for a contest, training, or recreation and does not realize that
a flight anywhere may be entered for the pilot and for his club but
should not be entered for a region outside the one in which it was flown.

My understanding is the Region entry is for the pilot, NOT where the
flight was made. That's how I've been entering my flights, including 10
flown outside my Region this year. I didn't even know what Region I was
in for those flights, but you can find out by looking a the trace and a
map of the Regions. But, without any scoring based on regions, why bother?

Entrants, and their competitors, should be concerned about both sources
of inappropriate and misleading information.

Should the Region be where the pilot is from, where the glider is
launched from, where soaring begins, or where the OLC start is? A single
flight could have three different answers for these four questions, and
none of this is discussed in the rules that I can find.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Eric, I have been looking at flights by Region for some time. Find the
Region of choice in the box beneath the blue at the top of the OLC page.

However, I had thought this list was by the Region where pilots are
based, but it appears the list really is by Region where the flight
occurred. Thus, there is no way to get a list of all flights by pilots
in a region.


Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jack wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:
If I am a Region 12 (So Cal) pilot flying in Region 11 (Nevada, among
other places), I must enter the flight in Region 11? Could you cite
the rule that says that?

snip

I think others will agree that details of OLC rules have not been
clearly presented in the past, though SSA-OLC Administrator Doug
Haluza has gone a long way recently toward making the SSA OLC more
accessible to all of us. If I am wrong in my assessment of this issue,
I apologize for adding to the confusion. I believe this is an area
that needs further clarification.

Maybe not: I can't find any reference to the use of Region in the
USA-OLC, so I don't think Region has any significance at this point.
There are Champion listings, and Statistics by Airfield, Club, All
Flights, and Best Flights, but none by Region.

We have 12 Regions because we have very different soaring conditions and
opportunities in this great expanse called the USA. It seems to me
completely illogical that wave flights in Region 11 or ridge flights in
Region 2 should be considered in comparison to thermal flights in Region
6, for example, when establishing Regional standings for clubs and
individuals.

Maybe I'm missing something, but where are the Regional Standings
listed? I don't see them on the SSA-OLC page or mentioned in the rules.
My understanding is the Region designation may be used at some later
date, but I don't see any use of it now.

These errors sometimes result from keyboard errors in data entry. They
also result when a pilot based in one region travels to a different
region for a contest, training, or recreation and does not realize
that a flight anywhere may be entered for the pilot and for his club
but should not be entered for a region outside the one in which it was
flown.

My understanding is the Region entry is for the pilot, NOT where the
flight was made. That's how I've been entering my flights, including 10
flown outside my Region this year. I didn't even know what Region I was
in for those flights, but you can find out by looking a the trace and a
map of the Regions. But, without any scoring based on regions, why bother?

Entrants, and their competitors, should be concerned about both sources
of inappropriate and misleading information.

Should the Region be where the pilot is from, where the glider is
launched from, where soaring begins, or where the OLC start is? A single
flight could have three different answers for these four questions, and
none of this is discussed in the rules that I can find.

Greg Arnold wrote:
Eric, I have been looking at flights by Region for some time. Find the
Region of choice in the box beneath the blue at the top of the OLC page.

It took me a long while to find it, because I'm accustomed to using the
"North America" button from the OLC home page (which doesn't show it),
rather than the "US" button. I like to see what the Canadians are up to.


However, I had thought this list was by the Region where pilots are
based, but it appears the list really is by Region where the flight
occurred.

It does seem like it, since selecting Region 8 (my region) shows the
Canadian pilots entered in our Regional contest, even though their
region is listed as "BC/AB". Their flights do not show up in the Canada
listing. I notice the Canadian page region selection includes "USA" (in
addition to AB/BC, SK/MB, etc), so maybe that's what the Canadians in
the Region 8 contest selected so it would appear in the US listing.

Thus, there is no way to get a list of all flights by pilots
in a region.

I am still puzzled about the intent of the Region selection. I've always
thought it was for the pilot's region. For Daily Score, region selection
seems to pick flights within the region, but for "Statistics:all
flights", the region selection seems to pick "by pilot", as all my
flights in several regions show up there.

I still can't find anything in the rules about what region you should
enter when submitting a flight, so I won't be changing what I'm doing.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

I hope the OLC publicizes this rule before they start disqualifying
flights for listing the wrong region. Since the OLC software can find
the field at which the launch was made, perhaps it also could determine
the correct region.

It also would be good if the OLC webpage gave us a way of getting a list
of all flights by pilots who live in a certain region (regardless of
where flown), as otherwise on a Saturday or Sunday you may have to look
through a list of 100 flights to find the ones done by local pilots who
are flying in another region.



Jack wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:
If I am a Region 12 (So Cal) pilot flying in Region 11 (Nevada, among
other places), I must enter the flight in Region 11? Could you cite
the rule that says that?

The info below is cut-and-pasted directly from the OLC site

http://tinyurl.com/qqqsv

(note specifically under "Reason for complaint...: No fix in the region").


----------------
FLIGHT COMPLAINT

Dear Competitor,
the 'Partner-Check' is a very important aspect of the OLC system.
Whenever you find a faulty flight claim, please use the 'Patner-Check'
to inform us about the irregularity.
It is not denigrating but it helps the OLC-team to remove errors from
the scoring, as we have no time to check all the flights in detail.
Our time permits only random checks of flight claims.
We hope to have listed all possible irregularities in the complaint
form below, but if we have missed something send a mail to :
.
If you have a complaint about a flight , please complete the from
below, and send it to us by pressing 'Send' in the from.

Our OLC-Team


Information on the flight


Select the OLC:

Date of flight (dd.mm.yy):

Name of competitor:

Scored distance in km (xxxx.xx):

Reason for complaint, multiple choices possible:
DAeC-Index wrong, the correct one is:
Flight twice in scoring
No fix in the region
Departure time wrong
Finish time wrong
Means of propulsion active during soaring performance
Airspace infringement

Information on me:
Given name and name:
E-Mail for questions:
Telephone:


Anonymous complaints will not be processed.
------------------------------------------


I think others will agree that details of OLC rules have not been
clearly presented in the past, though SSA-OLC Administrator Doug Haluza
has gone a long way recently toward making the SSA OLC more accessible
to all of us. If I am wrong in my assessment of this issue, I apologize
for adding to the confusion. I believe this is an area that needs
further clarification.

We have 12 Regions because we have very different soaring conditions and
opportunities in this great expanse called the USA. It seems to me
completely illogical that wave flights in Region 11 or ridge flights in
Region 2 should be considered in comparison to thermal flights in Region
6, for example, when establishing Regional standings for clubs and
individuals.

These errors sometimes result from keyboard errors in data entry. They
also result when a pilot based in one region travels to a different
region for a contest, training, or recreation and does not realize that
a flight anywhere may be entered for the pilot and for his club but
should not be entered for a region outside the one in which it was flown.

Entrants, and their competitors, should be concerned about both sources
of inappropriate and misleading information.


Jack

The region in the SSA-OLC is the SSA Region of the take-off site. This
is the way it is done in all other OLC countries, and since this is an
international contest, we need to be consistent with this in the US as
well. It only makes sense, since pilots must claim flights in the
country where they are made, so what SSA Region would foreign pilots
use?

The only possible exception would be where a club's membership is based
in one region, but their home airport happens to be just over the line,
technically in another region. As long as the majority of the pilots
flying from this airport agree with the region shift, we could consider
declaring that that airport is in the adjoining region. If you want
this to apply to your airport, send an email request to olc at ssa
dot org.

The OLC flight statistics can be broken down by SSA Region. For
example, if you click on "Champion" in the OLC-Classic line of the web
page header, you see results for all regions, but if you select a
region from the drop-down box, you will see the rankings for that
region only. This allows people to set up local rivalries, that
equalize the weather conditions somewhat. So it makes no sense for
someone flying in the Desert Southwest to claim flights in Region 1
(New England) just because they receive mail or vote there.
Unfortunately, if you do select Region 1, you will see the results are
polluted by a number of pilots who did not bother to select the correct
region on their claim.

There is no need to talk of disqualification for now. It is just as
easy for the admin to change the region as it is to remove the flight.
So for now, we can just make the corrections if people are interested
in regional statistics, and they are seeing flights that should not be
there. Send email requests to olc at ssa dot org for this as well
(but let's prioritize this to just address the top few places only).
There is no need to burden the OLC Team with partner check requests, we
can administer US pilots locally.

Although there is no specific mention of takeoff region in the OLC
rules, just to make it explicit, the English version of the OLC web
claim form now shows "Take-off Region" next to the drop down menu.
Unfortunately flight analysis software will not show this in the
built-in menu.

The intention was to make this automatic, but because there were
problems with the airfield selection by the server early in the season,
this function was disabled by OLC. So there is no automatic check on
takeoff site right now. Also the current airfield database does not
have all the correct regions entered for every airfield. We are working
on improving this for 2007, but cannot promise anything yet (the OLC is
an all volunteer effort).

The SSA regions are based on state boundaries, and the state
abbreviations are included in the drop down selections to make
selecting the correct region easier. There are four states that are
divided as follows:

- CA is divided by the 36th parallel into Region 11 (north) and Region
12 (south)
- New York is divided by the 42nd parallel into Region 2 (south) and
Region 3 (north)
- Pennsylvania is divided by the 78th meridian into Region 2 (east) and
Region 3 (west)
- Missouri is divided by the 92nd meridian into Region 7 (east) and
Region 10 (west)

So please select the correct region of your takeoff site in your claims
so people can get correct regional results from the OLC.

Doug Haluza
SSA-OLC Admin

Jack wrote:
Several SSA OLC competitors in the recent Region 6 South contest at
Caesar Creek OH appear to have entered their flights in their respective
home regions (other than Region 6), even though no point on the flight
tracks lies outside of Region 6. There are other instances where pilots
have listed their flights in a different region than both the region in
which the flight was flown and their home club region. Usually this is
an adjacent region, indicating perhaps too little care with the
pull-down menu choices.

One may correct an entry made no more than four weeks ago. Instructions
he

http://tinyurl.com/r2lcb


Objections ("complaints" or "partner-checks") to uncorrected entries can
be lodged he

http://tinyurl.com/qqqsv


Anonymous complaints will not be processed.



Jack