McCain in '08

The Flyer: Last year you blocked AOPA President Phil Boyer’s nomination to
the FAA Management Advisory Council, leaving GA pilots and aircraft owners
without a voice on the council. Why did you do that?

"Senator McCain: As head of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association,
Mr. Boyer and I have had several spirited debates regarding my position
that corporate aircraft, along with airlines, should pay user fees to
reflect their use of the air traffic control system. Although I do not
understand it in this case, I certainly respect a genuine disagreement on
the merits of this issue. What I cannot respect, and the kind of attitude
that I believe would be a disservice to the FAA administrator, is Mr.
Boyer’s unwillingness to characterize my position correctly or to
acknowledge that he misrepresented my position in the past.

For example, an AOPA press release issued after Mr. Boyer’s nomination
hearing was misleading on its face. It said, “McCain pushed the user fees
proposal.” Nowhere did this press release clarify that I was not referring
to the vast majority of AOPA members, who do not own corporate jets. The
distinction is obviously critical to our exchange at the hearing. The
press release and certain Internet postings have left many AOPA members in
the dark regarding key aspects of my views. I think that it is the
responsibility of the head of an organization such as AOPA to fully inform
its members when it comes to an important aviation policy matter.

In answering a post-hearing question, Mr. Boyer said that he, and I quote,
“regret(s) the chairman feels as though I have misrepresented his
position.” Yet his answer again refused to acknowledge that there is a
difference between corporate user fees and general aviation user fees.
Other sectors of the industry — who are as adamantly opposed to fees as
AOPA is — will admit that my position has been misrepresented. Mr. Boyer
will not. Consequently, I question his qualification to be a productive
participant on the Management Advisory Council because such a position
calls for someone who would be able to consider even unpopular issues in
an honest and fair fashion."


Well done, Senator!!! Out the liar!

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:03:44 -0400, "Skylune"
wrote in
outaviation.com::

"Senator McCain: As head of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association,
Mr. Boyer and I have had several spirited debates regarding my position
that corporate aircraft, along with airlines, should pay user fees to
reflect their use of the air traffic control system.

First, AOPA was the originator of the MAC concept. For McCain to deny
hem a seat on it was a personal slap in the face, and more
importantly, it denied GA a voice in government policy making that
directly affects GA. The follow up question the Flyer should have
asked is: Who represents GA on the MAC currently?

Secondly, it's easy to spot the airlines' divide-and-conquer strategy;
Introduce user fees for one small segment of users, so that it will be
easier to include GA later. Separating GA jets from the entire GA
community emasculates them.

In my opinion, the airlines are trembling at the thought of losing
their first class clientele to GA jets. The airlines willingness to
impose user fees upon themselves is a scheme to increase operating
costs for GA jets. User fees will have a significantly lesser
*per-passenger* financial affect on airline ticket prices than it
would on GA jet ticket prices.

As the airlines already have their own weather and other services in
house, they wouldn't have to pay for those through user fees as GA jet
operators would.

McCain is a cleaver rascal. Here's some information:

http://www.truthinmedia.org/

Truth in Media Global Watch Bulletins

TiM GW Bulletin 97/4-6

Apr. 20, 1997
A Phony "Rhinestone Hero"
Who Is Senator John McCain of Arizona?

A Fraud, a Collaborator, and Danger to U.S. Security, Charges Ted
Sampley, Publisher of "U.S. Veterans Dispatch" (July 1995)




FROM PHOENIX, ARIZONA Topic: NORTH AMERICAN AFFAIRS

PHOENIX, Apr. 20, 1997 - Remember Senator John McCain of Arizona - the
"American hero" who miraculously survived years of imprisonment in a
North Vietnamese POW camp? If you're to believe Ted Sampley, publisher
of the "U.S. Veterans Dispatch," McCain "is a fraud, a collaborator,
and a danger to the security of the United States.... He is a phony
'Rhinestone hero.'"

Wow! What a contrast from the official public portrait of this
American "patriot!"

(TiM Ed. McCain may be all of what Sampley says and then some... Lest
we forget, he was also one of the "Keating Five," the five U.S.
senators whom the convicted Phoenix savings and loans financier,
Charles Keating, a 'mega fraud' in a financial sense comparable to
that of the McCain's alleged war record, turned to when he needed
favors in Washington, Disease. "Birds of a feather flock together?"

But if even McCain may have been gullible enough or greedy enough in
Keating's case, if just a fraction of Sampley's allegations were true,
this U.S. Senator would even make Bill Clinton, a proven draft-evader,
a genuine hero by comparison!

Is that why both of them are considered "leaders" in the American
government today? What does that tell us about the criteria by which
the leaders in America are selected nowadays? And what does that tell
us about the selectors to our national political "all stars?"?)

Meanwhile, here's what the "Butcher Kiet," one of the North Vietnamese
who allegedly relished torturing and killing the American POW's, said
in an interview with the TIME magazine some two years ago (April
1995):

Kiet: ..... We won the war because we had the right to defend our
country. I would like to emphasize our consistent policy of creating
peace and stability not only in Vietnam but also in other countries in
the region. We have consistently asserted our sovereignty and our
jurisdiction over the Spratly and Paracel islands since we do have the
evidence and grounds for that. All the parties concerned -- Vietnam,
China, the Philippines, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei -- should together
negotiate to find a solution to the dispute. It is not our policy to
deal with this issue bilaterally.

TIME: On the 20th anniversary of the war's end, what words do you have
for Americans?

Kiet: There are positive signs in the relationship between Vietnam and
America. It is encouraging that both Americans and Vietnamese are
showing a new willingness to look to the future and bury the past. We
would sincerely like the American people to understand that we are not
commemorating this anniversary to look back to what happened, but to
look forward to the next 20 years and beyond.(TIME,95-04-23)

Now a little more about Vo Van Kiet and one of our senators who
supported the "normalization" of relations:

"...Compare (Senator) McCain's record as a prisoner of war to that of
Army Special Forces Captain "Rocky" Versace, who was captured by
Vietnamese Communists (Viet Cong) on Oct. 29, 1963 in South Vietnam
and who resisted his captors to the end. Very few, if any, in Congress
know about Capt. Versace.

He spent two years chained in a bamboo cage and endured almost daily
torture by the Vietnamese Communists. Capt. Versace continuously
frustrated his Viet Cong interrogators by refusing to obey demands
that he denounce America and accept the Communist Philosophy of
revolution. He told his captors as they were dragging him to an
interrogation hut, "I am an officer of the United States Army. You can
force me to come here, you can make me sit and listen, but I don't
have to believe a damn word you say."

The Viet Cong decided that day to take no more resistance from Rocky
Versace. A few days later, on orders of Viet Cong leader VO VAN KIET,
today Vietnam's prime minister and McCain's friend, Versace was
dragged from his filth-ridden, mosquito-infested bamboo cage for the
last time and forced to kneel with his forehead pressed into the
jungle mud. Capt. Versace was then shot in the back of the head.

(Senator) McCain doesn't talk about MIAs Capt. Rocky Versace, from
Norfolk, VA., or Sgt. Kenneth Roraback of Fayetteville, N.C., or Army
Sgt. Harold Bennett of Perryville, Ark., who were all ordered executed
by his friend, "BUTCHER" Kiet, according to reports.

Compare McCain, the POW hero, to another fellow prisoner of war,
Marine Capt. Donald Cook, who was posthumously awarded the Medal of
Honor. Capt. Cook was awarded our nation's highest award for valor
because, during his years of captivity, he jeopardized his own health
by sharing his meager supply of food and scarce medicines with other
U.S. prisoners who were more sick. He became legendary for his refusal
to betray the military Code of Conduct. On one occasion, Vo Van Kiet's
Viet Cong cadre put a pistol to Capt. Cook's head, demanding that he
denounce the United States.

Capt. Cook, resisted and calmly recited the nomenclature of the parts
of the pistol, giving the Communists nothing. The Viet Cong were so
infuriated at Capt. Cook's resistance that they isolated him from
other American prisoners. They intentionally denied him much needed
food and medicine. Like Capt. Versace, Capt. Cook disappeared and was
never heard from again.

Today, Hanoi claims Capt. Cook died as a result of malaria and that
they do not know where his remains are buried. McCain discourages any
talk about Capt. Versace, Sgt. Roraback, Sgt. Bennett, and Capt. Cook.
To talk about such patriots would require the United States to demand
the return of their remains, or, at the very least, records of their
deaths.

If those MIAs are proven dead and their remains returned, then
McCain's friend, Vo Van Kiet, (now a "friend of the U.S."), would be
forced to explain the holes in the back of their skulls and why he had
ordered the POWs murdered."

---

TiM Ed.: As would the "Vietnam war hero" - Senator John McCain of
Arizona. And he would have to explain a few other "perks" which he
appears to have enjoyed as a POW, if the accounts of some POW sources
are to be believed. Which closes the loop of his likeness with one
Bill Klinton.

Isn't it amazing, therefore, that in our "free enterprise" society,
which is supposed to ensure that the "the cream always rises to the
top," actually the gutter-snakes made it to the top? While the likes
of the Versace's got a bullet in the back of the head. What kind of a
society does that make America today? A ROTTEN ONE, if you ask this
writer...

--------

Here's the full text of Ted Sampley's report, as also shown at:
http//www.ueib.com/ueibdiscussion/_disc1/00000181.htm

ARIZONA'S JOHN McCAIN:

A Fraud, "Rhinestone Hero," and National Security Risk

A Special Two-Part Series Article by Ted Sampley

THE U.S. VETERAN DISPATCH, JULY 1995, SPECIAL EDITION

John McCain the second-term Republican senator from Arizona and former
Navy pilot captured and held prisoner during the Vietnam War, is a
fraud, collaborator, and danger to the security of the United States
because he is being black-mailed by the COMMUNIST Vietnamese. He is a
phony--a "rhinestone hero."

While a prisoner of war, McCain was treated as a "special prisoner,"
with privileges including being given his own private and affectionate
nurse.

McCain's treatment as a "special prisoner" is a contradiction to his
much publicized image of a great war hero who was severely tortured
and kept in solitary confinement for long period's of time because he
refused to break during interrogation.

Ted Guy, a former Air Force Colonel held 5 1/2 years by the Vietnamese
and McCain's senior ranking officer (SRO) in the POW camp, told the
U.S. Veteran Dispatch he cannot remember the communists ever laying a
hand on McCain.

Other sources have told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that the Vietnamese
are holding as much as fifty hours of film footage secretly taken of
McCain during the time his KGB-trained handlers had him isolated from
other U.S. prisoners of war.

Some of the film, according to the sources, is of McCain receiving
special privileges during the time he claims he was being tortured and
held in long-term solitary confinement.

The sources say interrogators have candid camera footage of McCain
with the nurse, who allegedly supplied him with more than just medical
attention during those lonely days and nights in so-called solitary
confinement.

In June 1992, Trung Hieu, a film director from the Vietnamese Ministry
of Culture and former North Vietnamese Army photographer, told the
U.S. Veteran Dispatch that Hanoi does have considerable film of POW
McCain and some of it involves a Vietnamese woman.

Trung, who worked during the war as an official photographer in North
Vietnam's POW camps, was in the United States seeking political asylum
when he told the U.S. Veterans Dispatch about the film.

Trung also said that during the war he photographed a nearly intact
B-52 bomber, which was shot down at the edge of an air field near
Hanoi in December 1972. He said the North Vietnamese traded the B-52
and some of its surviving crew members to the Soviets for three MIG-23
jet interceptors. Trung said the Soviets wanted to interrogate the
crew about U.S. electronic warfare.

Trung said he took movie film of an American F-111 fighter bomber also
shot down in 1972. He said the F-111 capsule, along with the surviving
crew, was sent to China. The crew, according to Trung, was later
returned to Hanoi.

McCain, who was a member of the 1992 Senate Select Committee on
POW/MIA Affairs, argued emotionally during the hearings that "none of
the returned U.S. prisoners of war released by Vietnam were ever
interrogated by the Soviets."

Trung has said Hanoi has a large, secret vault containing shelves
loaded with POW/MIA related film, which it has never allowed the U.S.
government to view.

Gene Brown, who was employed by the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
for a period of time in 1992 and 1993, told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch
that, while in Hanoi, he had been inside a vault which contained
wall-to-wall film and that there appeared to be approximately 50 hours
of film about McCain.

Brown, who was in Hanoi secretly working for the DIA under the code
name "Druid Smoke" succeeded in smuggling nearly 4,500 photographs out
of Hanoi by buying them from Communist officials with money supplied
by the DIA. The photos, most of which had never been seen by the U.S.
government, were taken during the Vietnam War and depicted, Americans
killed in the war and the wreckage of many U.S. aircraft.

To avoid embarrassing the COMMUNISTS, USG officials declared the
release of Brown's black market photographs "important progress" and
"unprecedented cooperation" toward resolving the POW/MIA issue and
publicly thanked the Vietnamese for their cooperation.

Garnett Bell, a 30 year employee of DOD and former chief of the U.S.
office for POW/MIA Affairs in Hanoi, told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch
that he had actually seen some film footage of McCain taken by the
Vietnamese when McCain did not know he was being filmed.

Last month the United Press International (UPI) quoted the Cambodian
Khmer Rouge accusing McCain of being a "Vietnamese Agent."

"Who is John McCain?" the rebel group asked rhetorically in a radio
broad-case monitored in Bangkok.

"He is Vietnamese. He has a Vietnamese wife and Vietnamese children.
He is an American by nationality, but he is a Vietnamese agent..."

MCCAIN THE COLLABORATOR

From the first days of McCain's captivity, he seriously violated the
Military Code of Conduct, which outlines the basic responsibilitiese
and obligations of members of the Armed Forces of the United States
who have been captured by the enemy.

According to documentation obtained by the U.S. Veteran Dispatch, not
only did POW McCain promise to give the COMMUNISTS "military
information" in exchange for special hospital care not ordinarily
available to U.S. prisoners, but he also made numerous anti-war radio
broadcasts.

Article V of the Code of Conduct is very specific in declaring that
U.S. military personnel are required to avoid answering questions to
the utmost of their ability and to make no oral or written statements
disloyal to the United States and its allies or harmful to their
cause. Any violation of this code is considered collaborating with the
enemy.

The following is McCain's own admission of collaboration in an article
he wrote, printed May 14, 1973 in U.S. News and World Report:

"I think it was on the fourth day [after being shot down] that two
guards came in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to
show the other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the
size, shape and color od a football. I remembered that when I was a
flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his
thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he
died, which came as quite a surprise to us - a man dying of a broken
leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me.

"When I saw it, I said to the guard, `O.K., get the officer.'"

"An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came
to know very well as "The Bug." He was a psychotic torturer, one of
the worst fiends that we had to deal with. I said, `O.K., I'll give
you military information if you will take me to the hospital.'"

THE ADMIRAL'S SON GETS "SPECIAL" TREATMENT

McCain claims it was only a coincidence that, about the same time he
was begging to be taken to a hospital, the Vietnamese learned his
father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., commander of all U.S. forces
in Europe and soon-to-be commander of all U.S. forces in the Pacific,
including Vietnam.

McCain does concede he survived because the Vietnamese learned who his
father was, rushing him to a hospital where his wounds were eagery
treated.

The former POW admitted in the U.S. News and World Report article that
the Vietnamese usually left other U.S. prisoners with similar wounds
to die, not wishing to waste medication on them. McCain pointed out
"there were hardly any amputees among the prisoners who came back
because the North Vietnamese just would not give medical treatment to
someone who was badly injured. They weren't going to waste their
time."

McCain has failed to mention what he has confided to another U.S.
prisoner, that since the Vietnamese felt they had in their hands such
a "special prisoner" and propaganda bonanza, a Soviet surgeon was
called in to treat him.

The COMMUNISTS figured that because POW McCain's father was of such
high military rank, McCain was of royalty or the governing circle.
They bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."

His COMMUNIST handlers believed McCain, because he came from a
"royal-family", would, when finally released, return to the United
States to some important U.S. miltary or government job. Communist
Interrogators and psychological warfare experts drooled at the
thought.

McCain's handlers were very much aware that he would be under great
psychological pressure not to do or say anything that would tarnigh
the name of his famous military family.

In fact, the COMMUNISTS considered that to be the key to eventually
breaking and then "turning" their "special" prisoner, using blackmail
if necessary.

According to U.S. government documents, within a week of POW McCain
being transferred to the Gai Lam military hospital, the Hanoi press
began quoting him giving specific military information.

One report dated Nov. 9, 1967 read, "The question of the
correspondent, McCain answered: "My assignment in to the Oriskany, I
told myself, was due to serious losses of pilots, which were sustained
by this aircraft carrier (due to raids on the North Vietnamese
Territory * VNA), and which necessitated replacements. From 10 to 12
pilots were transferred like me from the forest to the Oriskany.
Before I was shot down, we had made several sorties. Al together, I
made about 23 flights over North Vietnam."

In that article, McCain was further quoted describing the number of
aircraft in his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order
of which his attack was supposed to take place.

Six weeks after McCain was shot down, he was taken from the hospital
and delivered to Room No. 11 of "The Plantation" and into the hands of
two other POWs, who helped further nurse him along until he was
eventually able to walk by himself.

Afterwards, his handlers isolated "special prisoner", McCain from
other American prisoners and made him the target of intense
psychological programs.

MCCAIN CONTINUOUSLY VIOLATES THE CODE OF CONDUCT

In direct violation of the Code of Conduct, McCain, who was supposedly
in solitary confinement, met with and was interviewed by several
foreign news reporters and political delegations, including many
high-ranking North Vietnamese leaders, such as Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap,
North Vietnam's Minister of Defense and natinal hero.

Through the Freedom of Information Act, the U.S. Veteran Dispatch
acquired a declassified Department of Defense (DOD) transcript of an
interview prominent french television reporter Francois Chalais had
with McCain.

Chalais told of his private interview with POW McCain in a series
titled "Life in Hanoi", which was aired in Europe. In the series,
Chalais said his neeting with McCain was "a meeting which will leave
its mark on my life."

"My meeting with John Sidney McCain was certainly one of those
meetings which will affect me most profoundly for the rest of my life.
I had asked the North Vietnamese authorities to allow me to peronally
interrogate an American Prisoners. They authorized me to do so. When
night fell, they took me --- without any precautions or mystery --- to
a hospital near the Gia Lam airport reserved for the military (passage
omitted). The officer who receives me begins: "I ask you not to ask
any questions of political nature. If this man replies in a way
unfavorable to us, they will not hesitate to speak of `brainwashing'
and conclude that we threatened him.

"This John McCain is not an ordinary prisoner. His father is none
other than Admiral Edmond John McCain, commander in chief of U.S.
Naval forces in Europe. (passage omitted).

Another declassified DOD document reports an interview between POW
McCain and Dr. Fernando Barral, a Spanish psychiatrist who was living
in Cuba at the time. The interview was published in the Havana Gramma
in January 1970.

According to the DOD report, the meeting between Barral and McCain
took place away from the prison at the office of the Committee for
Foreign Cultural Relations in Hanoi. During that interview, POW McCain
sipped coffee and ate oranges and cakes with his interrogator.

During that interview, McCain again seriously violated the Code of
Conduct by failing to "evade answering questions" to the "utmost" of
his ability when he, according to the DOD report, helped Barral by
answering questions in Spanish, a language McCain had learned in
school.

On Dec. 7, 1969, McCain was moved out of isolation and into the "Hanoi
Hilton" with other prisoners of war.

MCCAIN IS HANOI'S LEADING ADVOCATE

Today, McCain, who claims he was brutally tortured by the Communist
Vietnamese, has in?? focally emerged as Hanoi's leading advocate for
normalizaed relations with the United States.

McCain's high-profile and unrelenting support for a government that
brutally tortured and murdered his fellow POWs is causing POW/MIA
Family members and fellow Vietnam veterans to question the senator and
his motivations.

They ask what drives McCain, who owers his public life to the tag
"former POW," to work so hard for Hanoi and so diligently to discredit
any possibility, in fact the probability, that Hanoi held back live
U.S. prisoners of war after the 1973 prisoner release.

The POW/MIA families point out that they worked hard during the
Vietnam War to secure McCain's freedom when he was being held by the
Communists and the familes want to know why he is now betraying them
in their efforts to get answers about their missing loved ones.

None of the senators who served on the 1991-92 Senate Select Committee
on POW/MIA Affairs were as vicious in their attacks on POW/MIA family
members, veterans, and activists than McCain.

During the POW/MIA hearings, Frances Zwenig, the $118,000-a-year staff
director of the Senate Select Committee, reported to McCain that she
was told by the Vietnamese, during a July 1992 meeting with the
Vietnamese, that something had to be done about the POW/MIA activists
who were opposing lifting the U.S. imposed trade embargo against
Vietnam.

Not long after, McCain started demanding that the Select Committee
investigate the activists, prompting one observer to ask, "Are the
Vietnamese now directing the affairs of the Senate Select Committee?"

McCain accused the POW/MIA families and activists who openly
challenged the U.S. government's POW/MIA policy, of fraud. In his
attacks he said, "The people who have done these things are not
zealots in a good cause. They are criminals and some of the most
craven, most cynical, and most despicable human beings to ever run a
scam."

McCain took the lead in the Senate and demanded a U.S. Justice
Department investigation of the activists. The Justice Department did
investigate and found no reason to charge any of the POW/MIA
activists.

When one of McCain's former interrogators, Col Bui Tin, a former
Senior Colonel in the North Vietnamese Army, testified before the
Senate Select Committee, McCain did not display that same "pit bull"
inclination to attack as he did for the POW/MIA families and
activists. Col Tin told the committee that because of his high
position in the Communist Party during the war, he had the right to
"read all the documents and secret telegrams from the Politburo"
pertaining to American prisoners of war. He said not only did the
Soviets interrogate some American prisoners of war, but they treated
them very badly.

During a break in the hearing, McCain warmly embraced Bui Tin as if he
were a long lost brother. McCain fought a hard and successful campaign
to get the U.S.-impoed trade embargo against Vietnam lifted, despite
the opposition of all major veterans organizatinos, the two POW/MIA
family groups, and the majority of the Vietnamese Americans in this
country. The veterans want to know why McCain, the "conservative"
politician, takes such strong stand for the Vietnamese COMMUNISTS and
against such partiotic groups?

JOHN SIDNEY MCCAIN, III

John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone on August 29, 1936. His
father was Admiral John McCain II, who became commander-in-chief of
the Pacific forces in 1968. Admiral McCain later ordered the bombing
of Hanoi while his son was being held there as a prisoner of war. His
grandfather was Admiral John S. McCain, Sr., the famous commander of
aircraft carriers in the Pacific under Admiral William F. Halsey in
World War II.

McCain's early years were spent in various places on both the east and
west coats. He attended Episcopal High School Alexandria, VA., and
graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in June 1958.

His grades in electrical engineering were "satisfactory", although he
had numerous demerits for breakng curfews and infractions and he
graduated fifth from the bottom of his class.

Nevertheless, in spire of his low class standing, his request for
training as a Navy pilot was granted, no doubt his father's rank of
admiral and family history playing part in the decision.

After qualifying as a Navy pilot, McCain was shipped to Vietnam.

On his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct 26, 1967, McCain was
shot down by a surface-to-air missile.

To relate the event, McCain later recalled that he was flying right
over the heart of Hanoi in a dive at about 4,500 feet, when a Russian
missile the size of a telephone pole came up -- the sky was full of
them -- and blew the right wing off my Skyhawk dive bomber. It went
into an inverted, almost straight-down spin.

"I pulled the ejection handle, and was knocked unconscious by the
force of the ejection -- the air speed was about 300 knots. I didn't
realize it at the moment, but I had broken my right leg around the
knee, my right arm in three places and my left arm. I regained
consciousness just before I landed by parachute in a lake right in the
center of Hanoi, one they called the Western Lake. My helmet and my
oxygen mask had been blown off.

"I hit the water and sank to the bottom.....I did not feel any pain at
the time, and I was able to rise to the surface. I took a breath of
air and started sinking again."

After bobbing up and down, McCain said he was eventually pulled from
the water by Vietnames who swam out to get him.

He said a mob gathered on shore and that he was bayoneted in the foot
and his shoulder was smashed with a rifle butt. He said he was put on
a truck and taken to Hanoi's main prison.

THE "RHINESTONE HERO"

In Congress, McCain's peers tout him as a great war hero. On occasion,
the press categorizes McCain as one of the most tortured prisoners of
the Vietnam War. Neither is true. He was never brutally tortured and,
by his own admission, he collaborated with the COMMUNISTS.

When one totals McCain's 23 missions over North Vietnam, times the
number of minutes he was actually over enemy territory (approximately
20 to 35 minutes per mission), McCain's total time over Vietnam before
being shot down, was about 10 1/2 hours.

For those 10 1/2 hours over Vietnam, McCain, the Admiral's son, was
awarded two Silver Stars, two Legions of Merit, two Distinguished
Flying Crosses, three Bronze Stars, the Vietnamese Legion of Honor and
three Purple Hearts averaging over one hero medal per hour.

Compare McCain's 10 1/2 hours of combat and 13 medals to that of a
U.S. infantry private who spent 365 days trudging through South
Vietam's jungle and mud, facing death on a daily basis. He was lucky
to leave Vietnam with a simpe good conduct ribbon.

Compare McCain's record as a prisoner of war to that of Army Special
Forces Captain "Rocky" Versace, who was captured by Vietnamese
Communists (Viet Cong) on Oct. 29, 1963 in South Vietnam and who
resisted his captors to the end. Very few, if any, in Congress know
about Capt. Versace.

He spent two years chained in a bamboo cage and endured almost daily
torture by the Vietnamese Communists. Capt. Versace continuously
frustrated his Viet Cong interrogators by refusing to obey demands
that he denounce America and accept the Communist Philosophy of
revolution. He told his captors as they were dragging him to an
interrogation hut, "I am an officer of the United States Army. You can
force me to come here, you can make me sit and listen, but I don't
have to believe a damn word you say."

The Viet Cong decided that day to take no more resistance from Rocky
Versace. A few days later, one orders of Viet Cong leader Vo Van Kiet,
today Vietnam's prime minister and McCain's friend, Versace was
dragged from his filth-ridden, mosquito-infested bamboo cage for the
last time and forced to kneel with his forehead pressed into the
jungle mud. Cap. Versace was then shot in the back of the head.

McCain doesn't talk about MIAs Capt. Rocky Versace, from Norfolk, VA.,
or Sgt. Kenneth Roraback of Fayetteville, N.C., or Army Sgt. Harold
Bennett of Perryville, Ark., who were all ordered executed by his
friend, "BUTCHER" Kiet, according to reports.

Compare McCain, the POW hero, to another fellow prisoner of war,
Marine Capt. Donald Cook, who was posthumously awarded the Medal of
Honor. Capt. Cook was awarded our nation's highest award for valor
because, during his years of captivity, he jeopardized his own health
by sharing his meager supply of food and scarce medicines with other
U.S. prisoners who were more sick. He becamse legendary for his
refusal to betray the military Code of Conduct. On one occasion, Vo
Van Kiet's Viet Cong cadre put a pistol to Capt. Cook's head,
demanding that he denounce the United States. Capt. Cook, resisted and
calmly recited the nonemclature of the parts of the pistol, giving the
Communists nothing.

The Viet Cong were so infuriated at Capt. Cook's resistance that they
isolated him from other American prisoners. They intentionally denied
him much needed food and medicine. Like Capt. Versace, Capt. Cook
disappeared and was never heard from again. Today, Hanoi claims Capt.
Cook died as a result of malaria and that they do not know where his
remains are buried.

McCain discouragese any talk about Capt. Versace, Sgt. Roraback, Sgt.
Bennett, and Capt. Cook.

To talk about such patriots would require the United States to demand
the return of their remains, or, at the very least, records of their
deaths. If those MIAs are proven dead and their remains returned, then
McCain's friend, Vo Van Kiet, would be forced to explain the holes in
the back of their skulls and why he had ordered the POWs murdered.

John McCain is NO Hero. He violated the military Code of Conduct and
willfully collaborated with the Vietnamese, Soviets, and Cubans.

It is not yet publicly known just how much he collaborated and what
kind of favors he received in return. Those in the U.S. government
that do know are not talking.

"Larry Dighera" wrote:

I know nothing of the particulars of Sen. McCain's confinement, but this
stuff gives off a very strong aroma of fertilizer:

Ted Guy, a former Air Force Colonel held 5 1/2 years by the Vietnamese
and McCain's senior ranking officer (SRO) in the POW camp, told the
U.S. Veteran Dispatch he cannot remember the communists ever laying a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
hand on McCain.

Other sources have told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that the Vietnamese
^^^^^^^^^^^
are holding as much as fifty hours of film footage secretly taken of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
McCain during the time his KGB-trained handlers had him isolated from
other U.S. prisoners of war.

Some of the film, according to the sources, is of McCain receiving
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
special privileges during the time he claims he was being tortured and
held in long-term solitary confinement.

etc., etc.

and finally:

It is not yet publicly known just how much he collaborated and what
kind of favors he received in return. Those in the U.S. government
that do know are not talking.

So...guess what?...it's a conspiracy!

It is not yet publicly known just how much he collaborated and what
kind of favors he received in return. Those in the U.S. government
that do know are not talking.

Unless they risked their ass as McCain did and served as a POW themselves,
his political opponents' opinion isn't worth cold **** in an old boot.

The more people trash-talk McCain's service a Prisoner of War, the more
likely I am to support him. Right or left, America needs to identify,
publically humiliate and politically destroy any of these political asshats
who challenge the people's combat records for political leverage, especially
when those doing the trash-mouthing never once laced up a boot or a
flightsuit for their people.

Semper Fi.

-c

gatt wrote:


It is not yet publicly known just how much he collaborated and what
kind of favors he received in return. Those in the U.S. government
that do know are not talking.

Unless they risked their ass as McCain did and served as a POW themselves,
his political opponents' opinion isn't worth cold **** in an old boot.

The more people trash-talk McCain's service a Prisoner of War, the more
likely I am to support him. Right or left, America needs to identify,
publically humiliate and politically destroy any of these political asshats
who challenge the people's combat records for political leverage, especially
when those doing the trash-mouthing never once laced up a boot or a
flightsuit for their people.

I admire Sen McCain's service in the military and the sacrifices he endured
several decades ago, as a naval aviatior. Today however, he is a politician. To
say that someone can not disagree with a political position, opinion, or a
politician without insulting one's former service as a soldier, sailor, or
airman is fundamentally ridiculous.

In article , Jessica Rhodes wrote:

gatt wrote:


It is not yet publicly known just how much he collaborated and what
kind of favors he received in return. Those in the U.S. government
that do know are not talking.

Unless they risked their ass as McCain did and served as a POW themselves,
his political opponents' opinion isn't worth cold **** in an old boot.

The more people trash-talk McCain's service a Prisoner of War, the more
likely I am to support him. Right or left, America needs to identify,
publically humiliate and politically destroy any of these political asshats
who challenge the people's combat records for political leverage,
especially
when those doing the trash-mouthing never once laced up a boot or a
flightsuit for their people.

I admire Sen McCain's service in the military and the sacrifices he endured
several decades ago, as a naval aviatior. Today however, he is a politician.
To
say that someone can not disagree with a political position, opinion, or a
politician without insulting one's former service as a soldier, sailor, or
airman is fundamentally ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure that gatt was reacting to the opponent's trashing of McCain's
POW experience rather than any opponent disagreeing with any political
position.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"Jessica Rhodes" wrote in message
...

Unless they risked their ass as McCain did and served as a POW
themselves,
his political opponents' opinion isn't worth cold **** in an old boot.

I admire Sen McCain's service in the military and the sacrifices he
endured several decades ago,

I don't for a second admire that he was a POW. It wasn't his choice. He
didn't want to be one. Having been raised by a POW and seen the long-term
effects of what subhumans did to him, there's nothing about his experience
to admire. One can only respect them and remember to give thanks. I would
have been more clear had I said "his political opponents' opinion OF HIS
MILITARY SERVICE isn't worth..." which is what I meant. Criticising his
political policies or career is of course fair, but when you start picking
on a POW for being a POW, you are patently unworthy to be a leader of
Americans.

To say that someone can not disagree with a political position, opinion,
or a politician without insulting one's former service as a soldier,
sailor, or airman is fundamentally ridiculous.

I absolutely agree that once a person becomes a politician they're fair game
for public opinion, BUT, in no way does that give another politician an
excuse to discredit or call into question his military record, whether it's
McCain, Murtha, Bush Sr. or anybody else the United States of America saw
fit to decorate.

Here's the bottom line. McCain was a POW. He gave many years of his life
in service of his country. To attempt to diminish or devalue that for
political leverage is absolutely beneath contempt. That's the way it is.
Semper Fi.

-c

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:07:13 -0500, "Dan Luke"
wrote in
::


"Larry Dighera" wrote:

I know nothing of the particulars of Sen. McCain's confinement, but this
stuff gives off a very strong aroma of fertilizer:

Ted Guy, a former Air Force Colonel held 5 1/2 years by the Vietnamese
and McCain's senior ranking officer (SRO) in the POW camp, told the
U.S. Veteran Dispatch he cannot remember the communists ever laying a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
hand on McCain.

Other sources have told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that the Vietnamese
^^^^^^^^^^^
are holding as much as fifty hours of film footage secretly taken of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
McCain during the time his KGB-trained handlers had him isolated from
other U.S. prisoners of war.

Some of the film, according to the sources, is of McCain receiving
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
special privileges during the time he claims he was being tortured and
held in long-term solitary confinement.

etc., etc.

and finally:

It is not yet publicly known just how much he collaborated and what
kind of favors he received in return. Those in the U.S. government
that do know are not talking.

So...guess what?...it's a conspiracy!


Yes. The quote is a bit reactionary. :-)

I meant to quote this version:
http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/i...rum=2&topic=85
which contains this bit of information:

Lest we forget, he [McCain] was also one of the "Keating Five,"
the five U.S. senators whom the convicted Phoenix savings and
loans financier, Charles Keating, a 'mega fraud' in a financial
sense comparable to that of the McCain's alleged war record,
turned to when he needed favors in Washington, Disease. "Birds of
a feather flock together?"

It's all he
http://www.azcentral.com/specials/sp...cainbook5.html


It all started in March 1987. Charles H Keating Jr., the
flamboyant developer and anti-porn crusader, needed help. The
government was poised to seize Lincoln Savings and Loan, a
freewheeling subsidiary of Keating's American Continental Corp.

As federal auditors crawled all over Lincoln, Keating was not
content to wait and hope for the best. He'd spread a lot of money
around Washington, and it was time to call in his chits.

One of his first stops was Sen. Dennis DeConcini. The Arizona
lawmaker was one of Keating's most loyal friends in Congress, and
for good reason. Keating had given thousands of dollars to
DeConcini's campaigns. At one point, DeConcini even pushed Keating
for ambassador to the Bahamas, where Keating owned a luxurious
vacation home.

Now Keating had a job for DeConcini. He wanted him to organize a
meeting with the regulators. The message: Get off Lincoln's back.
Eventually, DeConcini would set up a meeting between five senators
and the regulators. One of them was John McCain.

McCain knew Keating well. His ties to the home builder dated to
1981, when the two men met at a Navy League dinner where McCain
was the speaker.

After the speech, Keating walked up to McCain and told him that
he, too, was a Navy flier, and that he greatly respected McCain's
war record. He met McCain's wife and family. The two men became
friends.

Charlie Keating always took care of his friends, especially those
in politics. John McCain was no exception.

In 1982, during McCain's first run for the House, Keating held a
fund-raiser for him, collecting more than $11,000 from 40
employees of American Continental Corp. McCain would spend more
than $550,000 to win the primary and the general election.

In 1983, during McCain's second House race, Keating hosted a
$1,000-a-plate dinner for McCain, though he had no serious
competition and coasted into his second term. When McCain pushed
for the Senate in 1986, Keating was there with more than $50,000.

By 1987, McCain had received about $112,000 in political
contributions from Keating and his associates.

McCain had also carried a little water for Keating in Washington.
While in the House, McCain, along with a majority of
representatives, co-sponsored a resolution to delay new
regulations designed to curb risky investments by thrifts like
Lincoln. ...

Larry Dighera wrote:
It all started in March 1987. Charles H Keating Jr., the
flamboyant developer and anti-porn crusader, needed help.

Anti-porn crusader? Hmmm, don't think I can support that... g

Larry Dighera wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:07:13 -0500, "Dan Luke"
wrote in
::


"Larry Dighera" wrote:

I know nothing of the particulars of Sen. McCain's confinement, but this
stuff gives off a very strong aroma of fertilizer:

Ted Guy, a former Air Force Colonel held 5 1/2 years by the Vietnamese
and McCain's senior ranking officer (SRO) in the POW camp, told the
U.S. Veteran Dispatch he cannot remember the communists ever laying a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
hand on McCain.

Other sources have told the U.S. Veteran Dispatch that the Vietnamese
^^^^^^^^^^^
are holding as much as fifty hours of film footage secretly taken of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
McCain during the time his KGB-trained handlers had him isolated from
other U.S. prisoners of war.

Some of the film, according to the sources, is of McCain receiving
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
special privileges during the time he claims he was being tortured and
held in long-term solitary confinement.

etc., etc.

and finally:

It is not yet publicly known just how much he collaborated and what
kind of favors he received in return. Those in the U.S. government
that do know are not talking.

So...guess what?...it's a conspiracy!


Yes. The quote is a bit reactionary. :-)

I meant to quote this version:
http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/i...rum=2&topic=85
which contains this bit of information:

Lest we forget, he [McCain] was also one of the "Keating Five,"
the five U.S. senators whom the convicted Phoenix savings and
loans financier, Charles Keating, a 'mega fraud' in a financial
sense comparable to that of the McCain's alleged war record,
turned to when he needed favors in Washington, Disease. "Birds of
a feather flock together?"


And while we are discussing the Keating Five, let's not forget the rest of the
Keating Five:

Alan MacG. Cranston (D-California)
Dennis W. DeConcini (D-Arizona)
John H. Glenn Jr. (D-Ohio)
Donald W. Riegle Jr. (D-Michigan)