Stucdent Pilot PIC Time

Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??

William Snow wrote:
Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??


A student pilot, currently endorsed for solo of a given type
of aircraft in his log book and student pilot certificate may
log PIC time while flying solo in that type aircraft.

"William Snow" wrote in message
. ..
Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??

The relevant regulation is 61.51e4. Being the sole manipulator does *not*
entitle a student pilot to log PIC time; only a sport, recreational,
private, or commercial pilot can log PIC time as sole manipulator(see
61.51e1).

However, 61.51e4 clearly states that a student pilot can log PIC time while
flying solo. What reason did anyone at your flight school give for doubting
that?

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...4/14tab_02.tpl

--Gary

Gary Drescher wrote:

However, 61.51e4 clearly states that a student pilot can log PIC time while
flying solo. What reason did anyone at your flight school give for doubting
that?

This is correct and it was a change that came with the 1995 Part 61
rewrite. Prior to then, there was no provision for student pilots
to log pilot-in-command time. This may be what confuses your
instructors.

It further confuses them as to this question: I logged solo time
back before Part 61 changed and allowed me to count it as pic time
as well. Now when I apply for my instrument rating do I count the
20 or so ours of pre-private solo time as PIC? Who knows.
Didn't really make a difference with close to 600 hours otherwise
logged.

William Snow wrote:
Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??


Huh? Why wouldn't he? If there's no one else in the cockpit, who else possibly
could be in command?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
William Snow wrote:
Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator.
What
is the group consensus??

Huh? Why wouldn't he? If there's no one else in the cockpit, who else
possibly could be in command?

You're addressing a separate question. Being PIC isn't the same as being
entitled to log PIC time; those two concepts are different, with different
criteria set forth by different regulations.

--Gary

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
William Snow wrote:
Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??


Huh? Why wouldn't he? If there's no one else in the cockpit, who else possibly
could be in command?



Being in pilot in command is not necessary NOR sufficient in order to
log it.

You have too many old people at your FBO. I think there used to be some
differences in prehistoric times. Today, student pilots are specificly
allowed to log PIC while solo under 61.51(e) (assuming properly
endorsed, medical, etc).
Also, remember that *being PIC* (often called "serving as PIC") is a
very, very different subject than logging PIC. You log PIC because
61.51(e) says so, end of story, being PIC doesn't come into play.


-Robert

William Snow wrote:
Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??

I think that you would be doing a public service if you bought a copy of the
regulations for your flight school so that similar questions can be answered
in the future.

Bob Gardner

"William Snow" wrote in message
. ..
Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??

I had some of the same questions, so I ask the AOPA Pilot Information Center.
Here was they reply.


George,

Thank you for your email.

As a student pilot you can only log PIC time when you are the sole occupant of
the aircraft. You will see that is found in FAR 61.51. After your solo
endorsement you are not rated for the aircraft. As a private pilot once you are
"rated" in the aircraft you can log PIC time for all that time that you are the
sole manipulator of the controls. So add up your solo time as a student pilot
plus your USAF solo time as well as your sole manipulator of the controls after
your obtaining your private and you will have your total PIC time. I hope this
helps you out.

If you have any further questions feel free to contact us at 1-800-872-2672.

Best Regards,

Nathan Rohrbaugh
Aviation Technical Specialist
Pilot Information Center
Fax 301-695-2372
www.aopa.org


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On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:31:04 -0400, "William Snow" wrote:

Around our flight school there seems to be dissention as to whether a
student pilot, post solo, can log pic time when there is no CFI in the
airplane.

It looks like the FAR says they can as they are the sole manipulator. What
is the group consensus??


GeorgeC