Mandatory Flight Plans???

Wow what a weird conversation today!! A few reps / attorneys in my district
were at the bar were talking about the latest GA crash in NYC so I had to
listen in so I bought one a drink at started to mingle a but. They were
talking about making flight plans mandatory and mandatory VFR reporting
points/routs in large city's & near schools. By this time I had to interrupt
them and tell them how the voting general aviation public would frown upon
them rules....they were not assertive and were not willing to listen and
told me that the general aviation part of the public is to small to make a
sway in this argument and they will do what ever that they decide they think
is right for the rest (majority) of the public.

These guys had no idea about what general aviation really was until I
brought up that the small jets that they fly in for their spur of the moment
trips is considered general aviation then they started to listen a bit.(yea
because now it concerned them) I explained how it would make it more time
consuming to the pilots and also, over load the already stressed controllers
by dumping hundreds or even thousands of extra VFR traffic in to the system
for them to deal with. They responded that it's their job and they would
have to deal with it!

Gawd I hope the U.S. don't end up like the European bureaucracy when it
comes to VFR flying!!!!!!!

A number of years ago, a Congressman proposed that ANY
airplane approaching the USA without a clearance that would
not answer a radio call be shot down. War on drugs, this
was before War on Terror. They were very serious, any
airplane.
So I contacted a few Congressmen and Senators and told them
what the procedure would be, a light twin or even business
jet would depart the Caribbean resort headed for Miami or
Atlanta. After take-off they would open their flight plan.
But an electrical failure would knock out the lights, radios
and navigation. The transponder would not work. Navigation
errors or perhaps an engine problem would put them well off
the flight plan. ATC would know that some airplane had a
problem,
But the "unknown" aircraft would be picked up by military
radar and since it would not have a transponder and might
even be at low altitude, fighters would be scrambled.
Running with no lights and "refusing to answer" radio calls,
it would be shot down and three Congressmen would be killed
returning from golf in the Bahamas.

The idea died.


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"NW_Pilot" wrote in
message . ..
| Wow what a weird conversation today!! A few reps /
attorneys in my district
| were at the bar were talking about the latest GA crash in
NYC so I had to
| listen in so I bought one a drink at started to mingle a
but. They were
| talking about making flight plans mandatory and mandatory
VFR reporting
| points/routs in large city's & near schools. By this time
I had to interrupt
| them and tell them how the voting general aviation public
would frown upon
| them rules....they were not assertive and were not willing
to listen and
| told me that the general aviation part of the public is to
small to make a
| sway in this argument and they will do what ever that they
decide they think
| is right for the rest (majority) of the public.
|
| These guys had no idea about what general aviation really
was until I
| brought up that the small jets that they fly in for their
spur of the moment
| trips is considered general aviation then they started to
listen a bit.(yea
| because now it concerned them) I explained how it would
make it more time
| consuming to the pilots and also, over load the already
stressed controllers
| by dumping hundreds or even thousands of extra VFR traffic
in to the system
| for them to deal with. They responded that it's their job
and they would
| have to deal with it!
|
| Gawd I hope the U.S. don't end up like the European
bureaucracy when it
| comes to VFR flying!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|

In a previous article, "Jim Macklin" said:
Running with no lights and "refusing to answer" radio calls,
it would be shot down and three Congressmen would be killed
returning from golf in the Bahamas.

The idea died.

Not entirely. A few years back in South America somewhere, an air force
plane belonging to one of those South American countries that was being
directed by an USAF AWACS plane shot down a plane running with no lights
and "refusing to answer" radio calls. Turns out it was a delegation of
American ministers delivering bibles.

Anybody else remember the incident I'm rememebering?

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
....if you squeeze a MS product into a small enough memory footprint there may
not be sufficient space for it to fall over, thus giving the impression it's
reliable. -- Geoff Lane

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in
:

In a previous article, "Jim Macklin"
said:
Running with no lights and "refusing to answer" radio calls,
it would be shot down and three Congressmen would be killed
returning from golf in the Bahamas.

The idea died.

Not entirely. A few years back in South America somewhere, an air force
plane belonging to one of those South American countries that was being
directed by an USAF AWACS plane shot down a plane running with no lights
and "refusing to answer" radio calls. Turns out it was a delegation of
American ministers delivering bibles.

Anybody else remember the incident I'm rememebering?


It was in Peru.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/04/21/peru.plane.02/

http://judgejimgray.com/gpage4.html

Yes. As I recall they were in a seaplane following a river
and the radar intercept operators took the turns as "evasive
maneuvers" and the plane was shoot down.


"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
| In a previous article, "Jim Macklin"
said:
| Running with no lights and "refusing to answer" radio
calls,
| it would be shot down and three Congressmen would be
killed
| returning from golf in the Bahamas.
|
| The idea died.
|
| Not entirely. A few years back in South America
somewhere, an air force
| plane belonging to one of those South American countries
that was being
| directed by an USAF AWACS plane shot down a plane running
with no lights
| and "refusing to answer" radio calls. Turns out it was a
delegation of
| American ministers delivering bibles.
|
| Anybody else remember the incident I'm rememebering?
|
| --
| Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
| ...if you squeeze a MS product into a small enough memory
footprint there may
| not be sufficient space for it to fall over, thus giving
the impression it's
| reliable. -- Geoff Lane

In article 6wnZg.12659$XX2.5451@dukeread04,
"Jim Macklin" wrote:

A number of years ago, a Congressman proposed that ANY
airplane approaching the USA without a clearance that would
not answer a radio call be shot down. War on drugs, this
was before War on Terror. They were very serious, any
airplane.
So I contacted a few Congressmen and Senators and told them
what the procedure would be, a light twin or even business
jet would depart the Caribbean resort headed for Miami or
Atlanta. After take-off they would open their flight plan.
But an electrical failure would knock out the lights, radios
and navigation. The transponder would not work. Navigation
errors or perhaps an engine problem would put them well off
the flight plan. ATC would know that some airplane had a
problem,
But the "unknown" aircraft would be picked up by military
radar and since it would not have a transponder and might
even be at low altitude, fighters would be scrambled.
Running with no lights and "refusing to answer" radio calls,
it would be shot down and three Congressmen would be killed
returning from golf in the Bahamas.
The idea died.

Already happened. A Baron returning from the Burmuda was rammed by an
F-4 in IMC off North Carolina in the 1980's, killing all onboard the
Baron.

That was a identification air intercept to get a visual and
it was an accident, not a shoot down.

BTW, I noticed that I typed shoot in an other post, about
the seaplane when I meant shot.


"john smith" wrote in message
...
| In article 6wnZg.12659$XX2.5451@dukeread04,
| "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
|
| A number of years ago, a Congressman proposed that ANY
| airplane approaching the USA without a clearance that
would
| not answer a radio call be shot down. War on drugs,
this
| was before War on Terror. They were very serious, any
| airplane.
| So I contacted a few Congressmen and Senators and told
them
| what the procedure would be, a light twin or even
business
| jet would depart the Caribbean resort headed for Miami
or
| Atlanta. After take-off they would open their flight
plan.
| But an electrical failure would knock out the lights,
radios
| and navigation. The transponder would not work.
Navigation
| errors or perhaps an engine problem would put them well
off
| the flight plan. ATC would know that some airplane had
a
| problem,
| But the "unknown" aircraft would be picked up by
military
| radar and since it would not have a transponder and
might
| even be at low altitude, fighters would be scrambled.
| Running with no lights and "refusing to answer" radio
calls,
| it would be shot down and three Congressmen would be
killed
| returning from golf in the Bahamas.
| The idea died.
|
| Already happened. A Baron returning from the Burmuda was
rammed by an
| F-4 in IMC off North Carolina in the 1980's, killing all
onboard the
| Baron.

john smith wrote:
Already happened. A Baron returning from the Burmuda was rammed by an
F-4 in IMC off North Carolina in the 1980's, killing all onboard the
Baron.


That was unintentional. The F-4 guy was trying to identify the aircraft; not
run into it. And he sure as hell didn't shoot at it.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

john smith writes:

Already happened. A Baron returning from the Burmuda was rammed by an
F-4 in IMC off North Carolina in the 1980's, killing all onboard the
Baron.

Ramming and shooting down are two different things.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message

Ramming and shooting down are two different things.


Brilliant!