How to tell my instructor to increase glidespeed with headwind?

Ok, my instructor did a simulated engine failure in the pattern; winds
were around 20kts in the air and 13kts on the ground. Did everything
perfectly; however after we took off again, he told me to maintain 65
kts next time, and I totally disagreed.
The manual says 65 kts for best glide speed; however that is in calm
air. As a glider person, I know adding about 1/2 the headwind component
will give the greatest distance.
After the flight I pulled up the Glider Flying handbook online and it
says:

"...it is apparent that flying a faster airspeed as the headwind
increases will result in the greatest distance over the
ground. If this is done for the polar curves from many
gliders, a general rule of thumb is found, namely, add
half the headwind component to the best L/D for the
maximum distance."

But even after telling him that he said that doesn't apply to power
planes, also saying that manuals never give best glide, and there has
to be a reason for that.

Do you guys have any ideas on how I can really convince him? Any good
sources?

Thanks!
-Nik

On 1 Nov 2006 15:22:16 -0800, "Nik" wrote:

Do you guys have any ideas

Yes: Run, don't walk away from that instructor.

Tobias

One simplified way would be to say you want to spend less time in the
headwind. Oversimplified, but it might at least get him to consider it.

Might use some simple math with convenient figures to prove it to him.

Best glide isn't in the books because it varies with weight and, as you can
see, wind conditions.

If you can't get it through to him, take the previous posters advice...run.

mike



"Nik" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ok, my instructor did a simulated engine failure in the pattern; winds
were around 20kts in the air and 13kts on the ground. Did everything
perfectly; however after we took off again, he told me to maintain 65
kts next time, and I totally disagreed.
The manual says 65 kts for best glide speed; however that is in calm
air. As a glider person, I know adding about 1/2 the headwind component
will give the greatest distance.
After the flight I pulled up the Glider Flying handbook online and it
says:

"...it is apparent that flying a faster airspeed as the headwind
increases will result in the greatest distance over the
ground. If this is done for the polar curves from many
gliders, a general rule of thumb is found, namely, add
half the headwind component to the best L/D for the
maximum distance."

But even after telling him that he said that doesn't apply to power
planes, also saying that manuals never give best glide, and there has
to be a reason for that.

Do you guys have any ideas on how I can really convince him? Any good
sources?

Thanks!
-Nik

"Nik" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ok, my instructor did a simulated engine failure in the pattern; winds
were around 20kts in the air and 13kts on the ground. Did everything
perfectly; however after we took off again, he told me to maintain 65
kts next time, and I totally disagreed.
The manual says 65 kts for best glide speed; however that is in calm
air. As a glider person, I know adding about 1/2 the headwind component
will give the greatest distance.
...
But even after telling him that he said that doesn't apply to power
planes, also saying that manuals never give best glide, and there has
to be a reason for that.

Do you guys have any ideas on how I can really convince him? Any good
sources?

You might try pointing him to
http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/power.ht...nd-penetration.

Or you might try to convince him to let you fly it both ways and see which
way gets you further.

If that doesn't persuade him, you might decide do it his way when you fly
with him, and do it the right way at other times.

--Gary

I'll bet that instructor will get dizzy looking at that web page and stick
to his guns... even though he's carrying blanks.

BT

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
"Nik" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ok, my instructor did a simulated engine failure in the pattern; winds
were around 20kts in the air and 13kts on the ground. Did everything
perfectly; however after we took off again, he told me to maintain 65
kts next time, and I totally disagreed.
The manual says 65 kts for best glide speed; however that is in calm
air. As a glider person, I know adding about 1/2 the headwind component
will give the greatest distance.
...
But even after telling him that he said that doesn't apply to power
planes, also saying that manuals never give best glide, and there has
to be a reason for that.

Do you guys have any ideas on how I can really convince him? Any good
sources?

You might try pointing him to
http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/power.ht...nd-penetration.

Or you might try to convince him to let you fly it both ways and see which
way gets you further.

If that doesn't persuade him, you might decide do it his way when you fly
with him, and do it the right way at other times.

--Gary

On 1 Nov 2006 15:22:16 -0800, "Nik" wrote in
. com:

But even after telling him that he said that doesn't apply to power
planes, also saying that manuals never give best glide, and there has
to be a reason for that.

Go to the Chief Pilot at the FBO, and ask him to explain it to your
CFI.

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:53:05 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

Go to the Chief Pilot at the FBO, and ask him to explain it to your
CFI.


Hey, I like this idea!

Then go find another instructor.

z

Remember what you're trying to do he get ready for/pass a checkride!

Barry Schiff recently wrote an article about how he was being checked
out for a rental and he set his speed to 55kts during the engine-out
exercise because that is the "rate of least descent" for an airplane
with a best glide speed of 67 knots. He was trying to set the "least
descent" speed to give him time to choose an adequate landing site at
which time he would have set the nose for the best glide speed. While
Mr. Schiff was right, he got gigged on it and found himself having to
prove himself and educate an instructor instead of getting the sign-off
and an airplane for an afternoon.

He'd have been much better off, for his own purposes, to have been
selfish, done as the instructor expected and then rent the airplane. I
suspect you might want to think the same way since you're not in a
position of credibility as a student and this particular piece of
knowledge is probably not universally taught to instructors of powered
aircraft. I'm also betting you are correct and that the rules of
physics do not change just because you add 300 lbs of dead weight and a
motionless propeller to the front of the glider. But, what is it you're
trying to do? Prove something he doesn't know? Or are you more
interested in proving your competence by his standards?

In other words, for what you're trying to get done, please the
professor first. Engage in the debate after you get your license. Odds
are that you'd have the same tough sell in front of you if you attempt
the same argument during your checkride. You can prove you're right
later.

Does that seem sensible?

Humbly,

Greg Chapman



Nik wrote:


Do you guys have any ideas on how I can really convince him? Any good
sources?

Thanks!
-Nik

writes:

Barry Schiff recently wrote an article about how he was being checked
out for a rental and he set his speed to 55kts during the engine-out
exercise because that is the "rate of least descent" for an airplane
with a best glide speed of 67 knots. He was trying to set the "least
descent" speed to give him time to choose an adequate landing site at
which time he would have set the nose for the best glide speed. While
Mr. Schiff was right, he got gigged on it and found himself having to
prove himself and educate an instructor instead of getting the sign-off
and an airplane for an afternoon.

He'd have been much better off, for his own purposes, to have been
selfish, done as the instructor expected and then rent the airplane. I
suspect you might want to think the same way since you're not in a
position of credibility as a student and this particular piece of
knowledge is probably not universally taught to instructors of powered
aircraft. I'm also betting you are correct and that the rules of
physics do not change just because you add 300 lbs of dead weight and a
motionless propeller to the front of the glider. But, what is it you're
trying to do? Prove something he doesn't know? Or are you more
interested in proving your competence by his standards?

In other words, for what you're trying to get done, please the
professor first. Engage in the debate after you get your license. Odds
are that you'd have the same tough sell in front of you if you attempt
the same argument during your checkride. You can prove you're right
later.

Does that seem sensible?

No, because the same instructor may misinform others who do not have
the benefit of other sources of information, and someone may be
injured or killed as a result of his misinformation.

Correct the instructor if he is wrong. If this creates an obstacle to
attaining your own objectives, find another instructor. But don't
just leave him to put other students in danger.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Correct the instructor if he is wrong. If this creates an obstacle to
attaining your own objectives, find another instructor.

You're kidding, right?