Get a ferry permit, or just fly it?

If you've got a small problem with your plane, do you bother with a ferry
permit, or do you just fly it if you think it's safe?

Hypothetical: Say your (shared) plane has gotten some damage, say for
instance a wingtip strobe/nav light assembly got scraped off against a
hangar while it was being towed. Say that the wires are secured with duct
tape and the person who did the damage flew it home like that. Also say
that the company that does the work on your plane isn't at your home
airport. Would you wait for a good VFR day and fly it over to that
company, or would you go through all the hassle of getting a local
mechanic to inspect it and apply for a ferry permit?

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"I have a step-ladder. It's a very nice ladder and all, but I wish I had
the chance to get to know my real ladder." - Paula Poundstone

Although the situation as you describe it does not seem to be one of
airworthiness in a practical sense, I have stayed out of trouble for many
years by asking myself "How will this decision sound at the inquest?" There
must be a mechanic somewhere nearby who could assess the damage and give you
a better answer.

Bob Gardner

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
If you've got a small problem with your plane, do you bother with a ferry
permit, or do you just fly it if you think it's safe?

Hypothetical: Say your (shared) plane has gotten some damage, say for
instance a wingtip strobe/nav light assembly got scraped off against a
hangar while it was being towed. Say that the wires are secured with duct
tape and the person who did the damage flew it home like that. Also say
that the company that does the work on your plane isn't at your home
airport. Would you wait for a good VFR day and fly it over to that
company, or would you go through all the hassle of getting a local
mechanic to inspect it and apply for a ferry permit?

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"I have a step-ladder. It's a very nice ladder and all, but I wish I had
the chance to get to know my real ladder." - Paula Poundstone

Paul Tomblin wrote:

If you've got a small problem with your plane, do you bother with a ferry
permit, or do you just fly it if you think it's safe?

Fly it.



Hypothetical: Say your (shared) plane has gotten some damage, say for
instance a wingtip strobe/nav light assembly got scraped off against a
hangar while it was being towed. Say that the wires are secured with duct
tape and the person who did the damage flew it home like that.


Fly it.


Also say
that the company that does the work on your plane isn't at your home
airport. Would you wait for a good VFR day and fly it over to that
company, or would you go through all the hassle of getting a local
mechanic to inspect it and apply for a ferry permit?


Fly it.

Newps wrote:
Paul Tomblin wrote:

If you've got a small problem with your plane, do you bother with a ferry
permit, or do you just fly it if you think it's safe?

Fly it.

I agree. Interestingly, I was involve in an FAA "altercation" a little
while back. The C-182 that the FBO rents out got an onsite inspection
by the FSDO and failed. All of us CFIs who taught in the plane got
called to the carpet for not taknig off inspection covers before flight
(or something stupid like that). Interestingly though a few pilot who
also happen to be FAA ATC's didn't get called at all. Seems like the
FAA takes care of their own??

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:


Interestingly though a few pilot who
also happen to be FAA ATC's didn't get called at all. Seems like the
FAA takes care of their own??

They may have had their interview at the tower.

Newps wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:


Interestingly though a few pilot who
also happen to be FAA ATC's didn't get called at all. Seems like the
FAA takes care of their own??

They may have had their interview at the tower.

That could be.

taking off maintenace inspection panels during a standard preflight?

Sorry boss, that step is not in the manufacturer's FAA APPROVED check list.

just how many stripped screw heads will the mechnics be replacing.

BT

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

Newps wrote:
Paul Tomblin wrote:

If you've got a small problem with your plane, do you bother with a
ferry
permit, or do you just fly it if you think it's safe?

Fly it.

I agree. Interestingly, I was involve in an FAA "altercation" a little
while back. The C-182 that the FBO rents out got an onsite inspection
by the FSDO and failed. All of us CFIs who taught in the plane got
called to the carpet for not taknig off inspection covers before flight
(or something stupid like that). Interestingly though a few pilot who
also happen to be FAA ATC's didn't get called at all. Seems like the
FAA takes care of their own??

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in
oups.com:

I agree. Interestingly, I was involve in an FAA "altercation" a little
while back. The C-182 that the FBO rents out got an onsite inspection
by the FSDO and failed. All of us CFIs who taught in the plane got
called to the carpet for not taknig off inspection covers before flight
(or something stupid like that). Interestingly though a few pilot who
also happen to be FAA ATC's didn't get called at all. Seems like the
FAA takes care of their own??

I don't know all of the details in this case, so I'll just throw out some
general concepts that were relayed to me recently by a fellow pilot who
spent some time at the local FSDO. He said that the FAA holds higher
expectations for CFIs with respect to regulatory infractions. Basically,
CFIs represent the FAA to their student pilots every day. It is their
responsibility to accurately teach pilots the rules that the pilots are
supposed to follow to ensure safe flight.

It is ultimately the Pilot's responsibility to ensure safety of flight, and
it is ultimately the pilot's responsibility to ensure the plane he is
commanding is airworthy. However, when a pilot is renting a plane from an
FBO, he is typically not given free access to maintenance Logbooks, and has
to trust that the FBO is properly maintaining the planes.

If the FAA finds out that the plane has not been properly maintained, they
are obviously going to take action to ensure that the problem gets
corrected. In reality, all the pilots who flew it in that condition may
have violated FAA regulations. However, as a CFI, you are not only supposed
to know how to determine if the plane was safe, you are also supposed to be
training pilots how to do the same. If, after being chastised by the FAA,
you STILL don't know what the problem was, or how to have detected it, I
would be concerned that you do not take seriously your RESPONSIBILITY as a
CFI to both your students and to the FAA.

What if the problem had caused fatalities? What if the problem could have
easily been detected, and your student missed it because you never taught
him that it is his responsibility to check for it, or even how to check for
it? Don't you think that CFIs SHOULD be held to a higher standard than
pilots?

Whether your students work for ATC or McDonalds is irrelevant - ATC is not
responsible for teaching pilots how to fly safely. CFIs are.

First, just follow the FAR's there is a section on airworthiness,
follow the following sequence of questions...

1. Is the inop equipment required by 91.105? (VFR required equipment)
2. Is it required by some AD? (Airworthiness directive)
3. Is it required in the POH as required equipment?
4. Was is required for aircraft certification?
5. Is it or not on a minimum equipment list? (Most private AC dont
have this)


If you fly with it INOP, make sure it is, placarded INOP, disconnected,
removed, and/or deactivated.

Judah wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in
oups.com:

If the FAA finds out that the plane has not been properly maintained, they
are obviously going to take action to ensure that the problem gets
corrected. In reality, all the pilots who flew it in that condition may
have violated FAA regulations. However, as a CFI, you are not only supposed
to know how to determine if the plane was safe, you are also supposed to be
training pilots how to do the same. If, after being chastised by the FAA,
you STILL don't know what the problem was, or how to have detected it, I
would be concerned that you do not take seriously your RESPONSIBILITY as a
CFI to both your students and to the FAA.

I guess that's me. I can't remember the last time I took an inspection
panel off and noticed a lose bell crank on the aileron assembly. I
can't remember the last time I checked the bolts that secure the seat
to the plane. I think you have a *very* optimistic view of the FSDO. In
this case, the FSDO had a beef with the FBO and wanted to scare CFIs
away.

-Robert, CFII