Cellphone use

I know there are regs against cellphone usage in aircraft.
I was wondering... has anyone ever known someone to get busted?
If so... what happened to them?

Mike

pittss1c writes:

I know there are regs against cellphone usage in aircraft.

Note that that are FCC regulations, not FAA regulations. The FCC is
considering lifting them under intense commercial pressure to allow
cellphone use aloft, even though most air travellers are apparently
opposed to the idea of lifting the ban.

One study found that an average of four cellphone calls are made from
aircraft per flight these days, despite the ban.

The FAA allows airlines and pilots (of GA aircraft) to ban the use of
electronic devices that may interfere with the safety of the flight,
but it doesn't specifically forbid or allow individual items, with a
handful of exceptions. It's up to the operator or pilot to decide.
Airlines and aircrews often have no clue as to which devices are truly
dangerous or safe and seem to rely on superstition to a large extent.
I've always found it odd that cellphones seem to scare them less than
laptops and GPS receivers, even though cellphones are among the rare
electronic devices that actually produce RF energy in quantity.

I was wondering... has anyone ever known someone to get busted?
If so... what happened to them?

I've never heard of it. If someone did get in trouble, it would be an
FCC violation, not an FAA violation.

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:
The FAA allows airlines and pilots (of GA aircraft) to ban the use of
electronic devices that may interfere with the safety of the flight,
but it doesn't specifically forbid or allow individual items, with a
handful of exceptions. It's up to the operator or pilot to decide. [..]

I was reading through ASRS pages a few years ago, and there was a
special report listing cellphone related entries. You can probably
Google it up. Pilots would note navigation equipment going wacky when
a passenger used their phone.

There was one particular report that stuck in my mind. It was a
flight trying to use the autoland feature in almost zero visibility
conditions. They reported that each time they got close to the ground
the autopilot would go wacky and try to drop them in. They aborted
landing twice and finally the copilot went back to the first-class
section (I think 747 upper deck) and noticed that a lady was trying to
call her friends each time to say they were landing! He made her turn
the phone off and they landed okay on the third try.

Of course, it could be coincidence. But from the reports, a lot of
pilots just don't like taking the chance when things are a little
tight.

Kev

Kev writes:

There was one particular report that stuck in my mind. It was a
flight trying to use the autoland feature in almost zero visibility
conditions. They reported that each time they got close to the ground
the autopilot would go wacky and try to drop them in. They aborted
landing twice and finally the copilot went back to the first-class
section (I think 747 upper deck) and noticed that a lady was trying to
call her friends each time to say they were landing! He made her turn
the phone off and they landed okay on the third try.

I would be wary of using anything that is designed to transmit radio
waves near avionics unless it were certified for such use, so cellular
telephones do make me uneasy.

The irrational prohibitions are those against devices that are not
transmitters, such as laptops, GPS receivers, and the like. But most
air crews haven't a clue in this domain so they ride on superstition;
some airlines do the same.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:

The irrational prohibitions are those against devices that are not
transmitters, such as laptops, GPS receivers, and the like. But most
air crews haven't a clue in this domain so they ride on superstition;
some airlines do the same.


You would think that the digital cell phones would be low power
enough, yet my GSM cell phones have always annoyed the hell out
of come low level audio (portable MP3 player docks and the like).
The sound is pretty distinctive. It's even gotten into my airplane
audio. It's a reminder for me to shut off my phone.

Ron Natalie writes:

You would think that the digital cell phones would be low power
enough, yet my GSM cell phones have always annoyed the hell out
of come low level audio (portable MP3 player docks and the like).
The sound is pretty distinctive. It's even gotten into my airplane
audio. It's a reminder for me to shut off my phone.

I think that interference comes from chip-modulation RFI in the phone.
I note that it's extremely sensitive to distance, which implies that
it has nothing to do with the actual transmitted energy. Laptops and
other types of computers also generate this kind of audio-frequency
interference. I don't think it bothers most avionics, but I'm not
sure (which means that I'd avoid it).

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
The irrational prohibitions are those against devices that are not
transmitters, such as laptops, GPS receivers, and the like. But most
air crews haven't a clue in this domain so they ride on superstition;
some airlines do the same.

Not irrational at all. Just because something isn't called a
transmitter, doesn't mean it isn't one. Laptops, GPS receivers, many
radios, are all inadvertent transmitters. Laptops because of their
onboard computer clocks at maniacal rates. Many types of tuners also
produce interference frequencies.

One of the most popular projects in 60s electronics magazines was for
non-transmitting (passive tuning) airline receivers you could use on a
plane.

Kev

Kev wrote:
Not irrational at all. Just because something isn't called a
transmitter, doesn't mean it isn't one. Laptops, GPS receivers, many
radios, are all inadvertent transmitters. Laptops because of their
onboard computer clocks at maniacal rates. Many types of tuners also
produce interference frequencies.

Not to mention - how many people turn off their laptop's Bluetooth or
Wi-Fi when they're on an airplane?

.... Alan

--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

Mxsmanic wrote:
pittss1c writes:

I know there are regs against cellphone usage in aircraft.

Note that that are FCC regulations, not FAA regulations.

Only partially correct. There are two issues.
The FAA has rules that cover all electronic devices. It requires
the operator to determine they are acceptable (with certain blanket
exceptions).

The FCC has a rule against airborne cell phone use ONLY for the
800 MHz AMPS band. This was primarily established to protect
the systems from interference. Since nobody is really using
analog cellular much anymore (the FCC no longer requires the
carriers in the 800 MHz band to provide any analog compatility)
the law is largely obsolete.

The FCC is
considering lifting them under intense commercial pressure to allow
cellphone use aloft, even though most air travellers are apparently
opposed to the idea of lifting the ban.

Actually, the FAA is getting a lot of heat to allow it. Unfortunately,
many of the digital services (like GSM) just don't work at altitude.
In the old analog days not that long ago (hence the guys on flight 93)
it did work, but it chewed up a lot of system capacity.

The FAA allows airlines and pilots (of GA aircraft) to ban the use of
electronic devices that may interfere with the safety of the flight,

More specifically it REQURIES THEM TO FORBID THEM.

but it doesn't specifically forbid or allow individual items, with a
handful of exceptions.

Actually, there is serious industry pressure to add cell phones to the
list of exemptions.

("pittss1c" wrote)
I know there are regs against cellphone usage in aircraft.
I was wondering... has anyone ever known someone to get busted?
If so... what happened to them?


They're taken up to 8,000 ft and ..."dropped".

As with their Runway Incursions Project (R.I.P.) the goal here, of the FAA,
is the "fewest" dropped callers.


Montblack