an exercise for sim pilots -- a 1 G roll

About a year ago there was a spirited discussion about maintaining a 1
G 'straight into the seat' force while doing a roll (let's define a
roll as rotating the airplane, somehow, 360 degrees around its axis
with respect to the horizon). As I rmember the analysis, if you have
enough control authority if you accelerate downward at 1 G and pull
hard enough while doing a coordinated roll you can do just that. A
blindfolded passenger would know the roll happened.

Are there any skilled sim players out there who can do this? I'm
especially interested in what airplanes have enough (simulated) control
authority to pull it off.

"Tony" wrote in message
ups.com...
About a year ago there was a spirited discussion about maintaining a 1
G 'straight into the seat' force while doing a roll (let's define a
roll as rotating the airplane, somehow, 360 degrees around its axis
with respect to the horizon). As I rmember the analysis, if you have
enough control authority if you accelerate downward at 1 G and pull
hard enough while doing a coordinated roll you can do just that. A
blindfolded passenger would know the roll happened.

Are there any skilled sim players out there who can do this? I'm
especially interested in what airplanes have enough (simulated) control
authority to pull it off.

Old time pilot (retired by age) and simulator dabbler.

I take it you are talking about a barrel roll. With the real thing, you feel
the roll in the seat of your pants. With the sim, I guess you'd have to do
it with instruments - i.e., coordinate with the ball, and a g-meter. Since
you can't feel it, I don't see how else you would know if you did it right.
Doesn't sound like much fun.

birdog writes:

I take it you are talking about a barrel roll. With the real thing, you feel
the roll in the seat of your pants. With the sim, I guess you'd have to do
it with instruments - i.e., coordinate with the ball, and a g-meter. Since
you can't feel it, I don't see how else you would know if you did it right.
Doesn't sound like much fun.

I've done it successfully as an experiment, out of curiosity, but you
are right, it's not much fun. It has the merit of being a very safe
maneuver.

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In article ,
says...
birdog writes:

I take it you are talking about a barrel roll. With the real thing, you feel
the roll in the seat of your pants. With the sim, I guess you'd have to do
it with instruments - i.e., coordinate with the ball, and a g-meter. Since
you can't feel it, I don't see how else you would know if you did it right.
Doesn't sound like much fun.

I've done it successfully as an experiment, out of curiosity, but you
are right, it's not much fun. It has the merit of being a very safe
maneuver.

Breaking both wings off in the simulator is also a very safe maneuver
isn't it?

-- Duncan

Duncan writes:

Breaking both wings off in the simulator is also a very safe maneuver
isn't it?

No, it causes the aircraft to crash.

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In article ,
says...
Duncan writes:

Breaking both wings off in the simulator is also a very safe maneuver
isn't it?

No, it causes the aircraft to crash.

Any injuries?

How much did it cost for the new plane?

--
Duncan

Duncan, the 'roll' I'm talking about would NOT be felt in the seat of
your pants -- it would be one G down into the seat throught the entire
roll. Kyle's observations in this thread are more on target. Done
correctly in an airplane it would feel exactly the same as it would if
it was flown while gaming it on a sim in your home office.


On Jan 2, 11:23 am, "birdog" wrote:
"Tony" wrote in oglegroups.com...

About a year ago there was a spirited discussion about maintaining a 1
G 'straight into the seat' force while doing a roll (let's define a
roll as rotating the airplane, somehow, 360 degrees around its axis
with respect to the horizon). As I rmember the analysis, if you have
enough control authority if you accelerate downward at 1 G and pull
hard enough while doing a coordinated roll you can do just that. A
blindfolded passenger would know the roll happened.

Are there any skilled sim players out there who can do this? I'm
especially interested in what airplanes have enough (simulated) control
authority to pull it off.Old time pilot (retired by age) and simulator dabbler.

I take it you are talking about a barrel roll. With the real thing, you feel
the roll in the seat of your pants. With the sim, I guess you'd have to do
it with instruments - i.e., coordinate with the ball, and a g-meter. Since
you can't feel it, I don't see how else you would know if you did it right.
Doesn't sound like much fun.

In article om,
says...


On Jan 2, 11:23 am, "birdog" wrote:
"Tony" wrote in oglegroups.com...

About a year ago there was a spirited discussion about maintaining a 1
G 'straight into the seat' force while doing a roll (let's define a
roll as rotating the airplane, somehow, 360 degrees around its axis
with respect to the horizon). As I rmember the analysis, if you have
enough control authority if you accelerate downward at 1 G and pull
hard enough while doing a coordinated roll you can do just that. A
blindfolded passenger would know the roll happened.

Are there any skilled sim players out there who can do this? I'm
especially interested in what airplanes have enough (simulated) control
authority to pull it off.Old time pilot (retired by age) and simulator dabbler.

I take it you are talking about a barrel roll. With the real thing, you feel
the roll in the seat of your pants. With the sim, I guess you'd have to do
it with instruments - i.e., coordinate with the ball, and a g-meter. Since
you can't feel it, I don't see how else you would know if you did it right.
Doesn't sound like much fun.

Duncan, the 'roll' I'm talking about would NOT be felt in the seat of
your pants -- it would be one G down into the seat throught the entire
roll. Kyle's observations in this thread are more on target. Done
correctly in an airplane it would feel exactly the same as it would if
it was flown while gaming it on a sim in your home office.

Top post corrected - I think the person you are replying to is
"birdog" - not me

--
Duncan

Tony writes:

Duncan, the 'roll' I'm talking about would NOT be felt in the seat of
your pants -- it would be one G down into the seat throught the entire
roll. Kyle's observations in this thread are more on target. Done
correctly in an airplane it would feel exactly the same as it would if
it was flown while gaming it on a sim in your home office.

Not quite. You wouldn't be at exactly 1 G throughout the roll, so at
times you'd feel as though you were rising or falling (though not
necessarily in a dramatic way).

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On Jan 4, 3:38 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Tony writes:
Duncan, the 'roll' I'm talking about would NOT be felt in the seat of
your pants -- it would be one G down into the seat throught the entire
roll. Kyle's observations in this thread are more on target. Done
correctly in an airplane it would feel exactly the same as it would if
it was flown while gaming it on a sim in your home office.Not quite. You wouldn't be at exactly 1 G throughout the roll, so at
times you'd feel as though you were rising or falling (though not
necessarily in a dramatic way).


You are incorrect.

There is a flight path, taking into account roll, pitch, yah, and
thrust, that will result in a complete roll with an g meter indicating
1 G into the seat. Elsewhere in the thread someone indicated a solution
for the last part of the problem, namely if entered from straight and
level the airplane would be going down at about 75 kts at the end of
the roll.

The question I asked at the start wasn't if the flight path exists --
it does -- but rather, is there an airplane that has the control
authority to fly it.

My real life airplane, an M20, may not be flown at more than 30 degrees
pitch or 60 degrees bank, but those kinds of limitations do not apply
to someone who games on a flight simulator, or who has a suitably
certified airplane. My OP request was to have someone who is skilled in
simulated flight see if their simulated airplane had the control
authority to fly that flight path.







onogal balls ,

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