artificial horizon

Greetings flying folk,
I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
My needs are to provide some assistance when
VFR and the vis is poorly
or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
..
Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
many thanks
David Hill

"DavidH" wrote in
ups.com:

Greetings flying folk,
I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
My needs are to provide some assistance when
VFR and the vis is poorly
or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
.
Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
many thanks
David Hill



A couple of suggestions.

Don't fly VFR on top.

Get your buns back on the ground when the weather *begins* to get iffy.

Make me the beneficiary on your life insurance.

Or get an instrument ticket, equip your panel for IFR, and practice
enough to be comfortable in the soup.

Playing "partial panel" games in conditions that are "marginal" VFR is
kissing the cobra. Sooner or later you will get bit. I'm not trying to
be insulting. I just don't need to read about another guy who *almost*
made it home safe.

Later,
Joe Kultgen

On Feb 23, 4:13 pm, Joe Kultgen wrote:
"DavidH" wrote roups.com:

Greetings flying folk,
I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
My needs are to provide some assistance when
VFR and the vis is poorly
or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
.
Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
many thanks
David Hill

A couple of suggestions.

Don't fly VFR on top.

Get your buns back on the ground when the weather *begins* to get iffy.

Make me the beneficiary on your life insurance.

Or get an instrument ticket, equip your panel for IFR, and practice
enough to be comfortable in the soup.

Playing "partial panel" games in conditions that are "marginal" VFR is
kissing the cobra. Sooner or later you will get bit. I'm not trying to
be insulting. I just don't need to read about another guy who *almost*
made it home safe.

Later,
Joe Kultgen

Joe
I don't disagree with any of your post.
I do have the instrument ticket
but no longer have the income that supported hiring IFR aircraft.
Now a retired old bloke who enjoys pottering the sky at 60knots
and who would still like to improve the "keeping the wings level"
information on my rag and tube flying machine.
thanks for your imput
sincere thanks that is
Davidh

"DavidH" wrote in
ups.com:

Playing "partial panel" games in conditions that are "marginal" VFR
is kissing the cobra. Sooner or later you will get bit. I'm not
trying to be insulting. I just don't need to read about another guy
who *almost* made it home safe.

Later,
Joe Kultgen

Joe
I don't disagree with any of your post.
I do have the instrument ticket
but no longer have the income that supported hiring IFR aircraft.
Now a retired old bloke who enjoys pottering the sky at 60knots
and who would still like to improve the "keeping the wings level"
information on my rag and tube flying machine.
thanks for your imput
sincere thanks that is
Davidh


You're welcome, and thanks for taking it in the spirit it was offered.

Back when I was actively aviating I was strictly a daylight VFR person.

From your comments I'm sure you've been around long enough to have heard
the old saw about how a non-pilot, who sits in a plane and fools with the
controls long enough, will convince himself that he can fly. I can't say
how much truth there is to that. With the exception of an occasional
homebuilder I doubt that many non-pilots find themselves in that
position.

What I can say from personal experience, and the accident stats back me
up, is that a VFR pilot flying a plane with an IFR panel is much more
likely to find himself in conditions he isn't prepared to cope with.
Having the extra information available *can* make things safer. You're
the only one who knows exactly what your current skill set is and if you
have the self discipline to avoid cutting your safety margin because now
you also have "plan B". For myself I can't help wondering how many
people would be alive today if they had only a simple panel instead of
all the info they needed to get to that smoking hole in the landscape.

Fly safe, Fly often,

Joe

Joe,
you did say
............
What I can say from personal experience, and the accident stats back me
up, is that a VFR pilot flying a plane with an IFR panel is much more
likely to find himself in conditions he isn't prepared to cope with.
Having the extra information available *can* make things safer. .......
..
I do have the dilemma of knowing whether a slightly "better" panel is
insurance or is merely an invitation to get into trouble.
..
I dare say that we are all to one degree or another susceptible to the
"it's there so I'd better use it" syndrome and consequently do need to
recognise the potential for getting ourselves beyond our skill/
currency levels.
..
Current thinking is that I will probably install one of the
Stratomaster electronic attitude indicators/turn co-ordinators.
best wishes
Davidh

"DavidH" wrote:

Joe,
you did say
...........
What I can say from personal experience, and the accident stats back me
up, is that a VFR pilot flying a plane with an IFR panel is much more
likely to find himself in conditions he isn't prepared to cope with.
Having the extra information available *can* make things safer. .......
.
I do have the dilemma of knowing whether a slightly "better" panel is
insurance or is merely an invitation to get into trouble.
.
I dare say that we are all to one degree or another susceptible to the
"it's there so I'd better use it" syndrome and consequently do need to
recognise the potential for getting ourselves beyond our skill/
currency levels.

The answer's simple - just buy a hood and fly under it once in a while
(with a co-pilot, of course) to prove to yourself that you've invested
wisely. No risk, and all the same fun of "ignoring the seat of your
pants".

Mark "or you could paint your windows black" Hickey

"DavidH" wrote in
oups.com:

Current thinking is that I will probably install one of the
Stratomaster electronic attitude indicators/turn co-ordinators.
best wishes
Davidh


I had some extra money back when I was learning to fly and was fortunate
enough to have an instructor that liked to play after we'd covered what
was in the sylabus. At that time VFR flight instruction included enough
"hood time" that you wouldn't go into a blind panic if you somehow got
distracted and flew into a cloud. I gladly paid for a couple extra hours
of air time to practice partial panel IFR recovery from unusual
attitudes. If the FBO had a trainer rated for spins I'd have paid for
that as well. Instead we simulated multiple system failures. (You've
got a broken control cable. try to land with only throttle, trim, and
rudder....Oops, you're also out of gas...Didn't do much of a pre-flight
did you?) I wasn't trying to be ready for anything. It was more like
cultivating a mindset of "Do something constructive with whatever you
have left in the time you have available."

On my second take off after I soloed I lost a vacuum pump right after the
nose was up high enough I couldn't see over it. When the AH flopped over
sideways I very nearly did the same. It was a clear sunny day so looking
out the windows took care of the problem. What shocked me was how close
I came to seriously screwing up due to a faulty readout from an
instrument I didn't need to fly the plane. Since then I've tended to
regard anything the flight instruments tell me as "second hand news".
Interesting, and sometimes vital, information but not to be trusted if
there's a better source available. :-)

The Stratomaster line looks like good gear. The only thing I'd suggest
is that you get in the habit of turning it off now and then. If you find
you're actually using it you might want to install a non-electric backup.

Just a thought,
Joe K

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 05:13:39 GMT, Joe Kultgen
wrote:

"DavidH" wrote in
oups.com:

Greetings flying folk,
I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
My needs are to provide some assistance when
VFR and the vis is poorly
or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
.
Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
many thanks
David Hill



A couple of suggestions.

Don't fly VFR on top.

Get your buns back on the ground when the weather *begins* to get iffy.

Make me the beneficiary on your life insurance.

Or get an instrument ticket, equip your panel for IFR, and practice
enough to be comfortable in the soup.

Playing "partial panel" games in conditions that are "marginal" VFR is
kissing the cobra. Sooner or later you will get bit. I'm not trying to
be insulting. I just don't need to read about another guy who *almost*
made it home safe.

Later,
Joe Kultgen

I'm with david. my day vfr tailwind has an AH fitted and it has saved
my bacon on 3 occasions now.
I dont fly deliberately into anything opaque but I'll warrant that if
you fly regularly enough you'll get overtaken by the fluffy stuff
eventually.

david a reliable day vfr system with the addition of an AH is all you
should need. that and a garmin gps.

Stealth Pilot

"DavidH" wrote in message
ups.com...
Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
many thanks

Scroll to the bottom of this page: http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page22.htm

Vaughn


David Hill

"DavidH" wrote:

Greetings flying folk,
I am seeking an economical AH, or turn coordinator system.
My needs are to provide some assistance when
VFR and the vis is poorly
or if when VFR on top the gaps are closing
or on top and the cloud tops are not horozontal.
.
Any suggestions on minimal systems greatly appreciated.
many thanks
David Hill

How about a turn coordinator with a small venturi vacuum source?

CW Crane