Primary training in a Hi Perf complex acft

Total stream-of-consciousness post here...

Anbody learn to fly in a high performance complex aircraft? Bonanza,
Saratoga, 182RG and the like? I know it's possible, just wonder how
much longer it'd take for a student to master something with
significant power and prop & gear controls. (I did all my instructing
in 172s and PA28s)
I watched that goofy Segal movie Executive Decision the other day
where Kurt Russell was a student pilot flying a Bo, and later used his
stellar(?) flying skills to plant a 747 at a GA airport. It got me
thinking about ab initio folks learning in Cirruses (Cirri?)
Obviously with no prop or gear control it's a simpler aircraft to fly
but the performance is equal to or better than a A36.

My guess is that speed more than complexity would be the main
hindrance in learning in a high performance/complex aircraft.

I just remember how frustrating/hard it was the first few flights to
try to keep up on all my checklists/Comm/Flying puttering along at 100
knots in a C172... In a HP aircraft, everything happens faster...
Approaches, Altitude Deviations, etc... I think a huge part of the
advantage of learning in a slower plane is simply it allows you to get
all of your habits in place under a more time/lower stress
situation... then once they've become second nature, its a lot less of
a pain to adapt them to a faster paced environment.


On Mar 23, 9:36 am, "Kingfish" wrote:
Total stream-of-consciousness post here...

Anbody learn to fly in a high performance complex aircraft? Bonanza,
Saratoga, 182RG and the like? I know it's possible, just wonder how
much longer it'd take for a student to master something with
significant power and prop & gear controls. (I did all my instructing
in 172s and PA28s)
I watched that goofy Segal movie Executive Decision the other day
where Kurt Russell was a student pilot flying a Bo, and later used his
stellar(?) flying skills to plant a 747 at a GA airport. It got me
thinking about ab initio folks learning in Cirruses (Cirri?)
Obviously with no prop or gear control it's a simpler aircraft to fly
but the performance is equal to or better than a A36.

In article . com,
"EridanMan" wrote:

In a HP aircraft, everything happens faster...

Huh?
182 speeds are only 10-15 knots higher than a 152.
Too many pilots have been taught by their instructors to fly 25-30 knots
faster than they ought to.

Huh?
182 speeds are only 10-15 knots higher than a 152.

I'd like to see the 152 you fly.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article ,
Jose wrote:

Huh?
182 speeds are only 10-15 knots higher than a 152.

I'd like to see the 152 you fly.

Two people in a 182, the approach airspeed is between 55-60 kts.

Two people in a 182, the approach airspeed is between 55-60 kts.

Ok, but flying is more than just approaching.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Anbody learn to fly in a high performance complex aircraft?

Think of it like learning to play the violin by sitting in performance
with the NY Philharmonic and following along.

When you learn to play an instrument, or learn a new song on an
instrument you already know how to play, you start slow to make sure
your fingers are going in the right places before you speed up. You
simplify the tune and add the frills later. You practice the hard parts
by themselves, and then integrate them into the piece.

You can't do that in the air in a high performance aircraft.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote:

Think of it like learning to play the violin by sitting in performance with
the NY Philharmonic and following along.

That is an exaggerated analogy. Flying a Bonanza is nowhere near that much
harder than flying a Warrior. If you were comparing a Pitts to a Warrior, it
might be closer to accurate.

When you learn to play an instrument, or learn a new song on an instrument
you already know how to play, you start slow to make sure your fingers are
going in the right places before you speed up. You simplify the tune and
add the frills later. You practice the hard parts by themselves, and then
integrate them into the piece.

You can't do that in the air in a high performance aircraft.

Sure you can. All it takes is the right instructor and more money.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

In article ,
Jose wrote:

You can't do that in the air in a high performance aircraft.

Sure you can.
A 182 has throttle and mixture just like a 152; don't use the prop
control for the first ten hours.

On Mar 23, 9:36 am, "Kingfish" wrote:
Total stream-of-consciousness post here...

Anbody learn to fly in a high performance complex aircraft? Bonanza,
Saratoga, 182RG and the like? I know it's possible, just wonder how
much longer it'd take for a student to master something with
significant power and prop & gear controls. (I did all my instructing
in 172s and PA28s)
I watched that goofy Segal movie Executive Decision the other day
where Kurt Russell was a student pilot flying a Bo, and later used his
stellar(?) flying skills to plant a 747 at a GA airport. It got me
thinking about ab initio folks learning in Cirruses (Cirri?)
Obviously with no prop or gear control it's a simpler aircraft to fly
but the performance is equal to or better than a A36.

I've taught a few primary students in the Mooney. It can certainly be
a handful but everyone is able to do it, and take their checkride in
the Mooney. The Mooney might be a more extreme example because its
more slippery than the planes you mentioned and requires much more
planning. Interestingly, time to initial solo is not a whole lot more
in the Mooney because pattern work is very procedural (checklist here,
gumps here, gear check here, etc). However, cross country solo takes a
fair amount more time in the Mooney because of the need to plan more
carefully. Every student I've done primary training with has arrived
at their destination during cross country training at least 5,000 feet
too high.
The challenge is to go through the checklist items and keep ahead of
the plane without having your head in the cockpit. You really have to
learn the skill of going through checklists and looking around at the
same time (something most students don't get until instrument training
because checklists are usually so short in primary training).

-Robert, CFII