Naval Aviator Slots- HELP!!

Any advice given on this subject is much appreciated!!

Just an hour and a half ago we received the news that my fiance
was not on the unofficial list of names of those students who had
received the Pilot and NFO slots. He attends the United States
Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, New York which is one of the
federal service academies. He has worked his butt of to get great
scores on all the tests for the navy aviator slots. Unfortunately we
receievd the bad news today. He's trying to get over his
disappointment but this is really getting to him because this has been
his dream since he was a little boy at one of the Aircraft shows. Upon
graduating this school in June he will be a commissioned officer in
the Naval Reserve however I know he will still long to be a naval
pilot. He has a great gpa, was the Company Fitness Officer so he
passed all the physical test with no problem, went on pilot
internships, and scored 7/9 on the avaiation test, which i hear is
suppose to be really well. Is there any hope of getting in from this
point on?

On Apr 17, 4:52 pm, wrote:
Any advice given on this subject is much appreciated!!

Just an hour and a half ago we received the news that my fiance
was not on the unofficial list of names of those students who had
received the Pilot and NFO slots. He attends the United States
Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, New York which is one of the
federal service academies. He has worked his butt of to get great
scores on all the tests for the navy aviator slots. Unfortunately we
receievd the bad news today. He's trying to get over his
disappointment but this is really getting to him because this has been
his dream since he was a little boy at one of the Aircraft shows. Upon
graduating this school in June he will be a commissioned officer in
the Naval Reserve however I know he will still long to be a naval
pilot. He has a great gpa, was the Company Fitness Officer so he
passed all the physical test with no problem, went on pilot
internships, and scored 7/9 on the avaiation test, which i hear is
suppose to be really well. Is there any hope of getting in from this
point on?

Does he have a commitment from the MMA? If not, maybe quit, finish
college and re-apply for AOCS(?)

Not a lot of people getting ouit these days w./o the airlines hiring...

On 17 Apr 2007 16:52:40 -0700, wrote:

Any advice given on this subject is much appreciated!!

suppose to be really well. Is there any hope of getting in from this
point on?

What obligation will he have after graduation from the MMA and how
does that affect his ability to get an aviation slot (what guidance
does he have from the school on this?)?

I honestly have never heard of any aviators that came this route, even
when I was in the NAVAIR Training Command in the 70's and 80's when
the need for pilots was greater than now. Not that it does not happen,
just have not known anyone.

At this moment, I would think that with most airlines not hiring there
is a high retention rate. Combined with a lot of squadrons getting
decommissioned, that does not leave a lot of slots for new guys.

My suspicion is that the few slots are being taken by more traditional
sources (Naval Academy, ROTC and AOCS).

I agree with another poster - if obligation to the merchant marine is
not an issue, get down to the Navy Recruiting Office and try to get
into the AOCS program (this is for folks who did not go to USNA or
ROTC and want to get into aviation - ever watch the movie "An Officer
and a Gentleman"?). This is your best bet at this point and the
program a lot of us on this group went through, or it's cousin, the
AVROC program. AOCS is for those who have graduated from college, the
AVROC program no longer exists but it allowed one to go to Pensacola
for 8 weeks between Jr and Sr years, then complete the remaining 8
weeks after graduation. This was what I did in 72 and 73.

There used to be a program for the folks from the USNA and ROTC who
already were commissioned and I imagine that there still is. I've been
retired for 10 years now and have not kept up.

Just make sure you are talking to an Officer Programs Recruiter.

PS: AOCS = Aviation Officer Candidate
AVROC - Aviation Reserve Officer Candidate

John Alger USN(ret)
1972-1997 // 1310,1320
TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B

On 2007-04-17 18:31:15 -0700, John said:

I honestly have never heard of any aviators that came this route, even
when I was in the NAVAIR Training Command in the 70's and 80's when
the need for pilots was greater than now. Not that it does not happen,
just have not known anyone.

Why would someone even go the Merchant Marine route in the first place
if they were dreaming of a career as a naval aviator? The Navy looks
down their collective nose at the merchant marine sailors, always have.
He would probably had a better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS
in aeronautical engineering at someplace like Purdue via the NROTC
route.


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"Bill Baker" wrote in message
...
On 2007-04-17 18:31:15 -0700, John said:

I honestly have never heard of any aviators that came this route, even
when I was in the NAVAIR Training Command in the 70's and 80's when
the need for pilots was greater than now. Not that it does not happen,
just have not known anyone.

We have one in strike training right now. Female, solid student, MMA grad.

Why would someone even go the Merchant Marine route in the first place if
they were dreaming of a career as a naval aviator? The Navy looks down
their collective nose at the merchant marine sailors, always have. He
would probably had a better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in
aeronautical engineering at someplace like Purdue via the NROTC route.

Perhaps that was the appointment offered? It varies year to year, but
competition for an appointment at one of the service academies is fierce.
So, you may go for USNA (USMA, USAFA, whatever) and your congressman says,
"Sorry, can't make it work. How about MMA?"

To the original post. How did our MMA guy do on the flight physical? When
I did mine (back when Moby Dick was a minnow) they culled the USNA grads by
making the physical (particularly the eye exam) a high hurdle. OTOH, I've
seen students lately who showed up wearing glasses to get to 20/20
corrected.

R / John

"John Carrier" wrote in message
. ..

"Bill Baker" wrote in message
...
On 2007-04-17 18:31:15 -0700, John said:

I honestly have never heard of any aviators that came this route, even
when I was in the NAVAIR Training Command in the 70's and 80's when
the need for pilots was greater than now. Not that it does not happen,
just have not known anyone.

We have one in strike training right now. Female, solid student, MMA
grad.

Why would someone even go the Merchant Marine route in the first place if
they were dreaming of a career as a naval aviator? The Navy looks down
their collective nose at the merchant marine sailors, always have. He
would probably had a better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in
aeronautical engineering at someplace like Purdue via the NROTC route.

Perhaps that was the appointment offered? It varies year to year, but
competition for an appointment at one of the service academies is fierce.
So, you may go for USNA (USMA, USAFA, whatever) and your congressman says,
"Sorry, can't make it work. How about MMA?"

To the original post. How did our MMA guy do on the flight physical?
When I did mine (back when Moby Dick was a minnow) they culled the USNA
grads by making the physical (particularly the eye exam) a high hurdle.
OTOH, I've seen students lately who showed up wearing glasses to get to
20/20 corrected.

R / John

Ah yes..... the old eye test trick. If you had too many with obviously
better than 20-20 vision, the "color perception" test was brought into play.

But you can't blame the NAVY they spent all that money teaching naval
engineering, strategy and tactics just so everyone that wanted to could
zooming around the sky.

The same thing often happened to NAVCAD's/MARCAD's. The programs were often
used as a recruiting tool to get highly qualified people.

"...better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical
engineering...."

An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight
training.

- From an old, no longer bold, naval aviator

end

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:45:34 -0700, "W. D. Allen"
wrote:

"...better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical
engineering...."

An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight
training.

- From an old, no longer bold, naval aviator

end

One can be both old and bold. And, once a tactical aviator, always a
tac aviator. It's sort of like that Marine thing---once, then always.
(With a couple of highly recognized exceptions...)

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

On 2007-04-19 12:45:34 -0700, "W. D. Allen" said:

"...better shot for a pilot slot by getting his BS in aeronautical
engineering...."

An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight training.

In peacetime, when there are few flight school slots available and the
services are being really picky, is that strictly true? I know what
you're saying, that the degree field of a candidates BA/BS is not a
major criteria for selection. But when the intake evaluators are
choosing among a large number of really good candidates, at some point
wouldn't they start looking down the checklist and start considering
things like what flavor of degree you hold?


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On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:26:44 -0700, Bill Baker
wrote:


An engineering degree would have no bearing on selection for flight training.

In peacetime, when there are few flight school slots available and the
services are being really picky, is that strictly true?

Actually it is true. Degree does not seem to matter. Back in the 80's
when I was working on a masters, I was also a contract simulator
instructor at my old training base (Chase) and did an analysis for my
statistics class of degrees vs completions. What I found was that
there was absolutley no correlation between the type of degree and the
succsess (or failure) of the prospective naval aviator.

This was also a time when there was a relative surplus of pilots, so
they could be choosy. What I found was that while there was an
expectedly high percentage of "hard science" degrees, the recruiters
did not seem to care - there appreared to be something more in the
prospects background that got them selected. However, that was not the
focus of my study and I did not have data to go in that direction.

John Alger USN(ret)
1972-1997 // 1310,1320
TA-4J, A-7E, EC-130Q, P-3B