How do you plan the descent in emergency landing practice?

After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?



Kirk
PPL-ASEL

On Oct 14, 7:44 pm, Kirk Ellis
wrote:
After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?

Kirk
PPL-ASEL

It just takes years of flight time and alot of practice. When flying
you need to consciously analyze everything from the time you untie the
plane till it's tied back down again. Best practice I have found for
spot landings is to visit an out of the way small airport and pick a
spot on the runway and fly the plane right to that spotseveral times,
using both directions if the wind is not too strong will help you
compansate for any drift/ tailwind componant, gusts,etc. The fact that
you asked the question shows your sincere desire for getting it right.
That's a good trait for a pilot.... :-)

Ben

Great advice.

The other thing I'll do is on longer, empty runways, I'll practice hot
approaches and extended flares - that is, coming over the fence fast
(100+ knots in a PA-28-140) and clean, chopping the power, and then
establishing and holding my flare, deploying flaps, and holding it to
a full-stall touchdown.

With power off landings, flexibility is life. The wider the range of
speeds your comfortable safely getting the plane down on the ground
during approach, the more options you have when it comes time to make
the choice to dive for the runway or do another 360. (assuming a long
enough runway). (yes, this is easier with "dirty" planes like my
piper, but widening your personal envelope of approach speeds in any
aircraft isn't necessarily a bad thing to do if you want options in an
emergency, no matter what the aircraft).




On Oct 14, 7:24 pm, " wrote:
On Oct 14, 7:44 pm, Kirk Ellis



wrote:
After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?

Kirk
PPL-ASEL

It just takes years of flight time and alot of practice. When flying
you need to consciously analyze everything from the time you untie the
plane till it's tied back down again. Best practice I have found for
spot landings is to visit an out of the way small airport and pick a
spot on the runway and fly the plane right to that spotseveral times,
using both directions if the wind is not too strong will help you
compansate for any drift/ tailwind componant, gusts,etc. The fact that
you asked the question shows your sincere desire for getting it right.
That's a good trait for a pilot.... :-)

Ben

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:24:49 -0700, "
wrote:

On Oct 14, 7:44 pm, Kirk Ellis
wrote:
After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

This is all I can find of the original post so I'll start from here.
I can relate what I was taught and it has served me well.


So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,

Here we have to discern between the need to land off field and an
emergency descent to get down as fast as possible and stay alive. I'm
assuming you are referring to a power off, off field landing and not
the cockpit fire, get this thing down NOW!

but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes

As Ben stated below, it takes practice and getting to know your plane
very well. Much depends on the height of the engine failure, or
emergency. Having plenty of altitude and time to consciously make
decisions is quite different from close to the ground where your
subconscious and ingrained training can save your life.

I've mentioned it before and so did some one in this thread; with an
engine failure on departure, my hands were taking care of lowering the
nose, and flaps while I was looking over the situation. Basically by
the time I could think it out I had already done what I needed to do.
Lower the nose, evaluate landing options, go full flaps, fuel valve
shut off, switches off, and I was on roll out.

to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Nah, sounds appropriate.


Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?

I'd certainly not call it a sixth sense. The term, experienced does
imply traits ingrained by...experience/practice, not some paranormal
sense.. When I took pilot proficiency training, we'd end up with AT
LEAST 3 simulated engine failures per flight. Best glide, pick a spot,
evaluate the situation and try for a restart if possible. Two full
days of intensive flying and at least one day with 10 hours of class
room. Ingrained a lot of habits.

One of the things emphasized was not to keep changing your mind after
picking a spot. Of course it's possible you discover that green field
is corn and the one a little ways over is bare, or possibly the bare
field is freshly plowed. From high up you have time to think and make
decisions. Oft times there is a tendency to over think and thus get
into trouble.


Kirk
PPL-ASEL

It just takes years of flight time and alot of practice. When flying
you need to consciously analyze everything from the time you untie the
plane till it's tied back down again. Best practice I have found for
spot landings is to visit an out of the way small airport and pick a
spot on the runway and fly the plane right to that spotseveral times,

I tend to spiral down keeping close in, always keeping the landing
site in view, and using slips where necessary. FULL flaps once the
landing spot is made.

I had this on a flight review immediately after some hood work. Hoods
off, your engine quit, find a place to land. We were at 4000, it was 5
miles to the airport, airport elevation is 630 MSL, best glide is 120
at roughly 600 fpm. I chose the airport and had to slip aggressively
to make the runway. Actually I put it down and stopped within 900 feet
of the touchdown end of the runway.

using both directions if the wind is not too strong will help you
compansate for any drift/ tailwind componant, gusts,etc. The fact that
you asked the question shows your sincere desire for getting it right.
That's a good trait for a pilot.... :-)


I think he's off to a good start.

Roger (K8RI)
Ben

"Kirk Ellis" wrote in message
...

After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?



Kirk
PPL-ASEL

There is no rule that says you have to fly a rectangular pattern. Vary it a
bit and see how it works.

My solution is to plan things so I'm always high on the base leg. That way,
I can overshoot the base leg, fly S-turns, and perform other energy and
altitude bleeding maneuvers to hit my target landing area.

On Oct 14, 9:44 pm, Kirk Ellis
wrote:
After dealing with the doctors and the FAA for the last six months I
finally got my class 3 renewed. It's been a year since I last flew.
and I can't believe how fast that time went by.

So this month I am getting back into the cockpit and in addition to
all of the standard maneuvers, I feel I especially need to work on
emergency off-field landings. I've had my ticket for over 8 years,
but financial concerns always seem to keep me from flying as much as I
would like. So I do not get to practice as much as I should. Which
brings me to the point of this post.

While doing emergency off-field landing practice I am still trying to
get some consistency in planning the descents from different altitudes
to be at 1000' agl heading downwind and abeam the touchdown point.
Seems like most of the time I was doing them last year, it was hit or
miss. (perhaps a poor choice of words).

Trying to put all the variables together to put the aircraft in the
right place at the right time on a consistent basis is still an
elusive endeaveor.

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?

Kirk
PPL-ASEL

No it is not a sixth sense. It is the right combination of numbers and
sight picture. Sight picture only helps when you are fairly low (ie
500' AGL) and on final approach. During downwind or base you don't
have a good sight picture to tell whether you are going to be too high
or too low. You have to rely on your altimeter and use several
'target' altitudes until you turn final. I use 1000' for the abeam-
point, 800' for turning base and 600' for turning final. How you get
down to 1000' is completely up to you, but you have to be facing the
right direction at the right altitude. If you are doing 360's to lose
altitude you should know how much altitude is lost in one turn. You
have several tools at your disposal to control altitude such as flaps,
airspeed and slip. On a normal approach (with power on) I aim for
400-500' for turning final. The trick is not to nail everything
precisely, but to learn to identify deviations and make early
corrections so that you don't get too far off track. After turning
final, you do everything based on sight picture. Aim for 1/3 down the
runway, but when you get close and the landing is assured, slip or
flap aggressively to put it down on the numbers.

Andrew Sarangan schrieb:

No it is not a sixth sense. It is the right combination of numbers and
sight picture. Sight picture only helps when you are fairly low (ie
500' AGL) and on final approach. During downwind or base you don't
have a good sight picture to tell whether you are going to be too high
or too low. You have to rely on your altimeter and use several
'target' altitudes until you turn final.

I disagree. Of course the alitmeter can be very helpful, but only if you
know the ground elevation and if you are sure your current altimeter
setting is correct.

As this is often not the case, think in angles. Angles stay the same
regardless of height and distance.

or too low. You have to rely on your altimeter and use several
'target' altitudes until you turn final.
I disagree. Of course the alitmeter can be very helpful, but only if you
know the ground elevation and if you are sure your current altimeter
setting is correct.

Correct. Additionally, altimeter will tend to stick with engine off.
Glider pilots are taught to ignore altimeter during circuit and
landing.

Bartek

brtlmj schrieb:

Glider pilots are taught to ignore altimeter during circuit and
landing.

Guess why I suggested the "looks about right" method... ;-)

brtlmj wrote:


Correct. Additionally, altimeter will tend to stick with engine off.

WHAT?