GA Callsigns

We were always taught to refer to ourselves on the radio with our full
callsigns until ATC refers to us with a shortened callsign (i.e. the last
three characters). However, I've noticed that the majority of the approach
controllers refer to most of the GA aircraft as "November" followed by their
numbers/letters. My question (to controllers in particular) is, do they
prefer us to refer to ourselves thereafter as "November xxxxxx" as well or
do they prefer us to keep with the "Cherokee/Cessna/Mooney..." moniker?

Minor point--I know. I just like to try and improve at least one thing
after each flight.

Marco

From the Air Traffic Control Handbook:

"2-4-20. AIRCRAFT IDENTIFICATION

Use the full identification in reply to aircraft with similar sounding
identifications. For other aircraft, the same identification may be used in
reply that the pilot used in his/her initial callup except use the correct
identification after communications have been established. Identify aircraft
as follows:

a. U.S. registry aircraft. State one of the following:

1. Civil. State the prefix "November" when establishing initial
communications with U.S. registered aircraft followed by the ICAO phonetic
pronunciation of the numbers/letters of the aircraft registration. The
controller may state the aircraft type, the model, the manufacturer's name,
followed by the ICAO phonetic pronunciation of the numbers/letters of the
aircraft registration if used by the pilot on the initial or subsequent
call."


From AIM 4-2-4(a)(3): "When the aircraft manufacturer's made or model is
stated, the prefix 'N' is dropped."

Take your choice. I personally never use November in communicating with ATC.

Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE
"Marco Leon" wrote in message
...
We were always taught to refer to ourselves on the radio with our full
callsigns until ATC refers to us with a shortened callsign (i.e. the last
three characters). However, I've noticed that the majority of the approach
controllers refer to most of the GA aircraft as "November" followed by
their numbers/letters. My question (to controllers in particular) is, do
they prefer us to refer to ourselves thereafter as "November xxxxxx" as
well or do they prefer us to keep with the "Cherokee/Cessna/Mooney..."
moniker?

Minor point--I know. I just like to try and improve at least one thing
after each flight.

Marco

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news
From the Air Traffic Control Handbook:

"2-4-20. AIRCRAFT IDENTIFICATION

Use the full identification in reply to aircraft with similar sounding
identifications. For other aircraft, the same identification may be used
in reply that the pilot used in his/her initial callup except use the
correct identification after communications have been established.
Identify aircraft as follows:

a. U.S. registry aircraft. State one of the following:

1. Civil. State the prefix "November" when establishing initial
communications with U.S. registered aircraft followed by the ICAO phonetic
pronunciation of the numbers/letters of the aircraft registration. The
controller may state the aircraft type, the model, the manufacturer's
name, followed by the ICAO phonetic pronunciation of the numbers/letters
of the aircraft registration if used by the pilot on the initial or
subsequent call."


From AIM 4-2-4(a)(3): "When the aircraft manufacturer's made or model is
stated, the prefix 'N' is dropped."

Take your choice. I personally never use November in communicating with
ATC.

Bob, thanks for the quotes. I had figured it was a gray area. I didn't
realize the ATC Handbook specifically states that "November" is to be used
on initial call-up--that's good to know. I thought it was as others have
guessed which is that the controllers have simply forgotten the type or use
"November" in the interest of simplicity.

I actually do use "Cherokee" even though the controller refers to me as
"November" but it just stikes me as odd or even wrong that in the same
conversation we are using two different ways of referring to the same thing.

Marco

Marco Leon wrote:
My question (to controllers in particular) is, do they
prefer us to refer to ourselves thereafter as "November xxxxxx" as well or
do they prefer us to keep with the "Cherokee/Cessna/Mooney..." moniker?


Technically, either way is correct, but I (and the few ATC guys I know)
prefer to use the make/model, followed by the numbers. The main reason
being that ATC will often point you out to others as traffic and in busy
areas it helps with visual identification.

I've found when a controller starts referring to me as "November xxx" it
usually means he either didn't hear my aircraft type on the initial call, or
he forgot it. A couple of times over the last few months when approach has
been calling me "November xxx", they've later asked for my aircraft type
before calling me out as traffic to another plane. This seems to be more
common with Approach controllers than with towers.

My biggest problem on initial call in is controllers admonishing me to use
my full callsign, even though I am using it.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

I've found when a controller starts referring to me as "November xxx" it
usually means he either didn't hear my aircraft type on the initial call, or
he forgot it. A couple of times over the last few months when approach has
been calling me "November xxx", they've later asked for my aircraft type
before calling me out as traffic to another plane.

Generally, I hear a terse "NOVEMBER xxxxx" when I'm not paying
attention and they've call me a coupla times.
Sightseeing, BSing with pax, etc.

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" wrote:


I've found when a controller starts referring to me as "November xxx" it
usually means he either didn't hear my aircraft type on the initial call, or
he forgot it.

Or he was unsure of what he heard.

I used to fly a Cessna Cutlass. When I checked in using that type,
controllers often came back with "November xxxxx" because they seldom heard
that type, I suppose...or they said "Douglas xxxxx" or "Cardinal xxxxx" or
some such.

Now that I'm flying a Skylane, that sort of thing seldom happens.


--
Dan
T-182T at 4R4

I used to fly a Cessna Cutlass. When I checked in using that type,
controllers often came back with "November xxxxx" because they seldom
heard that type, I suppose...or they said "Douglas xxxxx" or "Cardinal
xxxxx" or some such.

Now that I'm flying a Skylane, that sort of thing seldom happens.

We long ago gave up saying "Pathfinder November five six niner nine tree" --
all you get is a lot of "What's that?" from controllers. We just say
"Dakota five six niner niner tree" now, and they all get it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 2008-03-15, Jay Honeck wrote:
I used to fly a Cessna Cutlass. When I checked in using that type,
controllers often came back with "November xxxxx" because they seldom
heard that type, I suppose...or they said "Douglas xxxxx" or "Cardinal
xxxxx" or some such.
We long ago gave up saying "Pathfinder November five six niner nine tree" --
all you get is a lot of "What's that?" from controllers. We just say
"Dakota five six niner niner tree" now, and they all get it.

I'm curious to see what the reactions to "Zodiac five five zulu charlie"
will be. There's not much I can replace it with.

What do I tell ATC when they ask what that is? (Aside from "my airplane", of
course.)
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (getting ready to order)

Jay Maynard wrote in
:

On 2008-03-15, Jay Honeck wrote:
I used to fly a Cessna Cutlass. When I checked in using that type,
controllers often came back with "November xxxxx" because they
seldom heard that type, I suppose...or they said "Douglas xxxxx" or
"Cardinal xxxxx" or some such.
We long ago gave up saying "Pathfinder November five six niner nine
tree" -- all you get is a lot of "What's that?" from controllers.
We just say "Dakota five six niner niner tree" now, and they all get
it.

I'm curious to see what the reactions to "Zodiac five five zulu
charlie" will be. There's not much I can replace it with.

What do I tell ATC when they ask what that is? (Aside from "my
airplane", of course.)


Normally it's "experimental" for a homebuilt.

Bertie

"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...

I'm curious to see what the reactions to "Zodiac five five zulu charlie"
will be. There's not much I can replace it with.

What do I tell ATC when they ask what that is? (Aside from "my airplane",
of course.)


Try CH60.