Any details on the Uvalde mid-air / bailout?

Be curious to know what the damage was prior to bailout, etc... and
situation surrounding the contact. Thermaling? Cruising?

On Aug 11, 8:04*pm, Gary Emerson wrote:
Be curious to know what the damage was prior to bailout, etc... and
situation surrounding the contact. *Thermaling? *Cruising?

Just received an email from the bailout pilot--Mike Brooks of the
Greater Houston Soaring Assoc. This is his account and is being posted
for the educational purpose of understanding what happened, from his
perspective. The investigation into the accident is still ongoing and
this is his basic account (he was flying a Genesis II):

"I was having a nice run into the turnpoint following FT, a Ventus 2.
We had thermalled a bit together before the turnpoint. We made the
turnpoint, and I was still in trail with FT. Shortly after the turn,
FT pulled up into a nice thermal, and I did the same. We were both
established in the thermal at about 5,000 msl and I had about three
turns of strong lift. I then heard a massive bang, and the ship went
out of control immediately to the right. Control inputs didn't help. I
went through a couple of cycles of what might have been an inverted
flat spin before I pulled the canopy latches. The canopy departed as
soon as I pulled the latches - I didn't have to pull the spring
jettison handle. I saw it falling against the background of the earth,
so I know I was inverted at that point. I undid the rotary belts
release and I was out of the cockpit. I found the D-ring and pulled
it, and the chute opened right away. I was probably still in the
thermal because I saw my seat pads and various cockpit stuff floating
around near me. I saw the ship tumbling away below.

I never saw 7U, Bob Carl, who apparently had entered the thermal below
me and pulled up. I was in about a 55 degree bank to the right, and
his left winglet impacted my right wing lower surface. It then dug in
and opened a gash for most of the length of the wing out towards the
tip, taking out the aileron bellcrank and other drive pieces. The gash
was back a bit from the leading edge, and this thin skin folded back
into the airstream and was effectively a spoiler about half the length
of the wing and maybe 8 to a foot high. This is from the FSDO exam of
the pieces."

wrote:
On Aug 11, 8:04 pm, Gary Emerson wrote:
Be curious to know what the damage was prior to bailout, etc... and
situation surrounding the contact. Thermaling? Cruising?

Just received an email from the bailout pilot--Mike Brooks of the
Greater Houston Soaring Assoc. This is his account and is being posted
for the educational purpose of understanding what happened, from his
perspective. The investigation into the accident is still ongoing and
this is his basic account (he was flying a Genesis II):

"I was having a nice run into the turnpoint following FT, a Ventus 2.
We had thermalled a bit together before the turnpoint. We made the
turnpoint, and I was still in trail with FT. Shortly after the turn,
FT pulled up into a nice thermal, and I did the same. We were both
established in the thermal at about 5,000 msl and I had about three
turns of strong lift. I then heard a massive bang, and the ship went
out of control immediately to the right. Control inputs didn't help. I
went through a couple of cycles of what might have been an inverted
flat spin before I pulled the canopy latches. The canopy departed as
soon as I pulled the latches - I didn't have to pull the spring
jettison handle. I saw it falling against the background of the earth,
so I know I was inverted at that point. I undid the rotary belts
release and I was out of the cockpit. I found the D-ring and pulled
it, and the chute opened right away. I was probably still in the
thermal because I saw my seat pads and various cockpit stuff floating
around near me. I saw the ship tumbling away below.

I never saw 7U, Bob Carl, who apparently had entered the thermal below
me and pulled up. I was in about a 55 degree bank to the right, and
his left winglet impacted my right wing lower surface. It then dug in
and opened a gash for most of the length of the wing out towards the
tip, taking out the aileron bellcrank and other drive pieces. The gash
was back a bit from the leading edge, and this thin skin folded back
into the airstream and was effectively a spoiler about half the length
of the wing and maybe 8 to a foot high. This is from the FSDO exam of
the pieces."

Anyone know if Bob bailed out or landed?


Shawn

On Aug 12, 4:28*pm, wrote:

Just received an email from the bailout pilot--Mike Brooks of the
Greater Houston Soaring Assoc. This is his account and is being posted
for the educational purpose of understanding what happened, from his
perspective. The investigation into the accident is still ongoing and
this is his basic account (he was flying a Genesis II):

Thanks for posting the report. Glad both pilots survived what must
have been a very frightening experience.

Any report on damage to the Ventus? I would imagine it must have
received substantial damage too.

We don't have many contest mid-airs. The last one I heard of was also
at Uvalde, also in a thermal, but that resulted in much less damage
and both pilots got home ok.

A bit surprised, perhaps even amused, that RG1 received an airport
bonus. There must be more to that story.

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/a...a/10_110RG.txt

Andy

For the day, RG1 shows 'no flight log',

"Andy" wrote in message
...
On Aug 12, 4:28 pm, wrote:

Just received an email from the bailout pilot--Mike Brooks of the
Greater Houston Soaring Assoc. This is his account and is being posted
for the educational purpose of understanding what happened, from his
perspective. The investigation into the accident is still ongoing and
this is his basic account (he was flying a Genesis II):

Thanks for posting the report. Glad both pilots survived what must
have been a very frightening experience.

Any report on damage to the Ventus? I would imagine it must have
received substantial damage too.

We don't have many contest mid-airs. The last one I heard of was also
at Uvalde, also in a thermal, but that resulted in much less damage
and both pilots got home ok.

A bit surprised, perhaps even amused, that RG1 received an airport
bonus. There must be more to that story.

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/a...a/10_110RG.txt

Andy

Any report on damage to the Ventus? I would imagine it must have
received substantial damage too.

7U successfully returned to the Uvalde airport. I haven't heard any
exact reports about that part of the accident. I do know that the
Ventus' left winglet was gone. I'm guessing the winglet acted like a
can opener when it sliced through the bottom of the Genesis wing.
Amazing that he was able to remain airborne and under control although
compromised.

The collision was near Bracketville--which is about 25 miles west of
Uvalde.

On Aug 12, 8:03 pm, wrote:
Any report on damage to the Ventus? I would imagine it must have
received substantial damage too.

7U successfully returned to the Uvalde airport. I haven't heard any
exact reports about that part of the accident. I do know that the
Ventus' left winglet was gone.

It is not a good idea to make statements that you have not verified.
Right now it is not great to speculate until more details are
available.

And even though you "know the winglet was gone" I saw it on the glider
when I landed after the contest day. I examined it from about 6
inches so I can tell you it was there. So let's leave the speculation
and hearsay out of the discussion unless you have specific facts or
better yet a copy of both igc files and the final FAA report.

Tim (TT)

Speculation about fact is generally futile - go get the facts.

I am no expert but experience and some reading indicate that we can't trust our memory of events as much as we would
like - our conscious capabilities tend to get overwhelmed, and we miss things. Overwhelming events induce confusion and
or amnesia in varying degrees. Then along comes the conscious part of the mind (back from it's boot up) and fills in
the gaps. Which is one reason it is important to try to write things down as soon as possible after an incident before
we start to develop illusory memories.

So - Mike did a good thing writing the facts as he recalls them down - a.s.a.p.

As an aside - I believe speculation about how similar situations might develop is useful if we think and analyse and
possibly get a little safer.

Fred Blair wrote:
For the day, RG1 shows 'no flight log',

"Andy" wrote in message
...
On Aug 12, 4:28 pm, wrote:

Just received an email from the bailout pilot--Mike Brooks of the
Greater Houston Soaring Assoc. This is his account and is being posted
for the educational purpose of understanding what happened, from his
perspective. The investigation into the accident is still ongoing and
this is his basic account (he was flying a Genesis II):

Thanks for posting the report. Glad both pilots survived what must
have been a very frightening experience.

Any report on damage to the Ventus? I would imagine it must have
received substantial damage too.

We don't have many contest mid-airs. The last one I heard of was also
at Uvalde, also in a thermal, but that resulted in much less damage
and both pilots got home ok.

A bit surprised, perhaps even amused, that RG1 received an airport
bonus. There must be more to that story.

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/a...a/10_110RG.txt

Andy

On Aug 12, 5:51*pm, "Fred Blair"
wrote:
For the day, RG1 shows 'no flight log',

I had assumed the accident happened on day 3 since the official
results for that day show that both pilots withdrew from the contest.
Obviously that can't be correct if both pilots flew and collided the
next day.

Thanks for the clarification.

Andy

On Aug 12, 7:24 pm, Andy wrote:
We don't have many contest mid-airs. The last one I heard of was also
at Uvalde, also in a thermal, but that resulted in much less damage
and both pilots got home ok.

We do have lots of contest mid-airs. I've been at several contests
where there was a mid-air, including a fatal in Bayreuth at the pre-
worlds.
I lost a friend to a mid-air in Oz. John Good bailed out after a mid-
air
in Chester. Several midairs at contests I attended resulted in only
minor damage.

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave "YO"