Schleicher cockpit

It's snowing and for entertainment sake I thought I'd throw this question out there.
One of the selling points of the -24 and later Schleicher gliders is the "crashworthiness" of the fuselage. Waibel won the Ostiv, we've all seen pictures of the test rig dropping a fuselage after a simulated crash. It makes sense. 30 years later does it work?
With out looking at accident reports I can name a handful of fatalities in modern Schleichers. They don't make a difference in a high energy impact obviously, but how often do we see survivable low energy accidents? Of those low energy crashes, not all of them are going to hurt you anyway. I had a friend bounce a DG100 on its nose after a loss of control on T/O and he survived with stitches on his leg. Over run accidents? I've never heard of one causing serious injury. I have to admit I FEEL more safe in my -24 than say, a Libelle were the cockpit is a bit more robust than an eggshell but I'm not sure it's gonna matter if I screw up turning base to final one day.
Please respond soon. The snow is set to continue through tomorrow, I've watched everything on Netflix, I'm out of beer and waiting for the epoxy to set.

You had me at the out of beer! I feel reasonably safe in my ASW 20 but it is a high risk sport. You take your chances in life.

You will never get proper data, stories are anecdotal, tiny numbers and different variables. Survivable gets scored the same whether it is soreness for a day or crippled for life. Accident reports with 'released from hospital same day with minor back injury' may not reflect on years of pain and limited mobility.
If safety nags at you, ignore it, or quit and do something else for fun.

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 6:40:31 PM UTC-8, wrote:
It's snowing and for entertainment sake I thought I'd throw this question out there.
One of the selling points of the -24 and later Schleicher gliders is the "crashworthiness" of the fuselage. Waibel won the Ostiv, we've all seen pictures of the test rig dropping a fuselage after a simulated crash. It makes sense. 30 years later does it work?
With out looking at accident reports I can name a handful of fatalities in modern Schleichers. They don't make a difference in a high energy impact obviously, but how often do we see survivable low energy accidents? Of those low energy crashes, not all of them are going to hurt you anyway. I had a friend bounce a DG100 on its nose after a loss of control on T/O and he survived with stitches on his leg. Over run accidents? I've never heard of one causing serious injury. I have to admit I FEEL more safe in my -24 than say, a Libelle were the cockpit is a bit more robust than an eggshell but I'm not sure it's gonna matter if I screw up turning base to final one day.
Please respond soon. The snow is set to continue through tomorrow, I've watched everything on Netflix, I'm out of beer and waiting for the epoxy to set.

"crashworthiness" or not, you just can't lawn dart them.

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 9:40:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
It's snowing and for entertainment sake I thought I'd throw this question out there.
One of the selling points of the -24 and later Schleicher gliders is the "crashworthiness" of the fuselage. Waibel won the Ostiv, we've all seen pictures of the test rig dropping a fuselage after a simulated crash. It makes sense. 30 years later does it work?
With out looking at accident reports I can name a handful of fatalities in modern Schleichers. They don't make a difference in a high energy impact obviously, but how often do we see survivable low energy accidents? Of those low energy crashes, not all of them are going to hurt you anyway. I had a friend bounce a DG100 on its nose after a loss of control on T/O and he survived with stitches on his leg. Over run accidents? I've never heard of one causing serious injury. I have to admit I FEEL more safe in my -24 than say, a Libelle were the cockpit is a bit more robust than an eggshell but I'm not sure it's gonna matter if I screw up turning base to final one day.
Please respond soon. The snow is set to continue through tomorrow, I've watched everything on Netflix, I'm out of beer and waiting for the epoxy to set.

Ed Byars is alive today because of the crash worthiness of the cockpit of his ASW-28, which is almost exactly the same as the '24. I have a '24 that was cartwheeled. All forward damage was in front of the knees. No injury. I bought a '27 where the accident was so violent that it broke a wing 24 inches from the root. The cockpit stayed together and the pilot walked out of the wreck.
I bought a Discus that cartwheeled. The cockpit was completely broken up. It was a fatal.
FWIW
UH

I had a look at a 28 that was seriously smashed up with a loooow turn to a field. The pilot walked away.

Getting smacked in the back of the head by the wing spar is a major fatality mechanism that safety cockpits can mitigate.

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 6:40:31 PM UTC-8, wrote:
It's snowing and for entertainment sake I thought I'd throw this question out there.
One of the selling points of the -24 and later Schleicher gliders is the "crashworthiness" of the fuselage. Waibel won the Ostiv, we've all seen pictures of the test rig dropping a fuselage after a simulated crash. It makes sense. 30 years later does it work?
With out looking at accident reports I can name a handful of fatalities in modern Schleichers. They don't make a difference in a high energy impact obviously, but how often do we see survivable low energy accidents? Of those low energy crashes, not all of them are going to hurt you anyway. I had a friend bounce a DG100 on its nose after a loss of control on T/O and he survived with stitches on his leg. Over run accidents? I've never heard of one causing serious injury. I have to admit I FEEL more safe in my -24 than say, a Libelle were the cockpit is a bit more robust than an eggshell but I'm not sure it's gonna matter if I screw up turning base to final one day.
Please respond soon. The snow is set to continue through tomorrow, I've watched everything on Netflix, I'm out of beer and waiting for the epoxy to set.

Lange too looks like they had safety in mind when designing: https://www.lange-aviation.com/en/pr...0e/sicherheit/

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 6:40:31 PM UTC-8, wrote:
It's snowing and for entertainment sake I thought I'd throw this question out there.
One of the selling points of the -24 and later Schleicher gliders is the "crashworthiness" of the fuselage. Waibel won the Ostiv, we've all seen pictures of the test rig dropping a fuselage after a simulated crash. It makes sense. 30 years later does it work?
With out looking at accident reports I can name a handful of fatalities in modern Schleichers. They don't make a difference in a high energy impact obviously, but how often do we see survivable low energy accidents? Of those low energy crashes, not all of them are going to hurt you anyway. I had a friend bounce a DG100 on its nose after a loss of control on T/O and he survived with stitches on his leg. Over run accidents? I've never heard of one causing serious injury. I have to admit I FEEL more safe in my -24 than say, a Libelle were the cockpit is a bit more robust than an eggshell but I'm not sure it's gonna matter if I screw up turning base to final one day.
Please respond soon. The snow is set to continue through tomorrow, I've watched everything on Netflix, I'm out of beer and waiting for the epoxy to set.

I saw an ASW27 crash on very late final, all pilot error. It dropped a wing/started to rotate. Mangled a wing, broke the tail boom, canopy flew off. I thought for sure the pilot was going to be injured.... and then he climbed out, stood up and walked around. The great undercarriage may have helped here as well.

I called Waibel a couple weeks ago to chat and congratulate him for the Lilienthal medal he recently received from OSTIV for his leadership in making gliders more crash resistant. The curved rear lower corners of the canopy frame instead of the usual weak right angle and the mingling of carbon and Kevlar and glass has made the difference in the outcomes of many prangs. The deformation of the front of the fuselage in a crash has been transferred from the hip/torso region to the area in front of the stick.

Thanks go also to Schleicher for supporting these more expensive designs in a financially competitive environment.

Karl Striedieck wrote on 1/18/2020 1:52 PM:
I called Waibel a couple weeks ago to chat and congratulate him for the Lilienthal medal he recently received from OSTIV for his leadership in making gliders more crash resistant. The curved rear lower corners of the canopy frame instead of the usual weak right angle and the mingling of carbon and Kevlar and glass has made the difference in the outcomes of many prangs. The deformation of the front of the fuselage in a crash has been transferred from the hip/torso region to the area in front of the stick.

Thanks go also to Schleicher for supporting these more expensive designs in a financially competitive environment.

How is Gerhard doing? Flying, involved some project? I miss him at the conventions.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1