A couple SSA 2020 convention presentations online...

Stephen Szikora wrote on 2/28/2020 9:26 AM:
I’m seeing a lot of nonsense rationalization here. Any jump is better experience than no jump at all. If nothing else, you will learn to fly the canopy including judgung the flare on landing. Besides, anything you do in life is first practiced in “ideal� conditions (other than a first kiss!)

Do round emergency parachutes flare? If there is wind, is flaring even desirable
when you are drifting backwards?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Static line...Â* Don't forget to disconnect it before getting out after a
normal landing... :-D

We have a Master Rigger who comes to Moriarty each spring and gives a
parachute ground school.Â* He gives a lecture first, then hanging harness
training in the hangar, finally everyone gets a chance to learn to
collapse a canopy in high winds (it's Moriart in the spring!).Â* To do
that, the student dons the harness which is tied by a rope to the bumper
of a truck.Â* Then the canopy is released into the wind.

Collapsing a canopy in the wind is trivial if you know the technique.Â*
Simply grab ONE suspension line and start pulling it in towards
yourself.Â* The canopy will collapse very quickly.Â* What's sobering is
when someone forgets that simple trick and is tossed about like a sack
of meat until a helper collapses the canopy for him.Â* Unrestrained and
without help, that person would go on a long and possibly fatal ride.


On 2/28/2020 9:37 AM, wrote:
As someone who spent their youth engaged in the parachute arts I don't think a practice jump is going to help. Tandem ground school and jump experience is useless, accelerated freefall is better but 99% of it is irrelevant. They are training people to be skydivers, not bailout survivors. Find someone that once jumped lots and now flies sailplanes and have them teach you. Or a rigger, they have an idea of what our community needs to know. Which at its simplest is:
Look for the handle, reach for the handle, pull the handle. And as Dave said in the video consider a static line, if you do use a static line have the same mindset - Look, Reach, Pull. Have a goal of being faster than the static line. You won't be, but you'll survive if you forgot to clip it on.

--
Dan, 5J

All of what Dave said is true, unless you wear a ram-air rectangular
emergency chute.Â* For me training at the sky diving club was a great
improvement over my Air Force training since that was geared to round
chutes and I now have a much more maneuverable square chute.

Dave, what do you mean by "push, not pull" on chute deployment? Assuming
you're talking about rip cord use, I'd advise pull straight down with
both hands, not straight out.

Cheers

On 2/28/2020 11:04 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 12:26:31 PM UTC-5, Stephen Szikora wrote:
I’m seeing a lot of nonsense rationalization here. Any jump is better experience than no jump at all. If nothing else, you will learn to fly the canopy including judgung the flare on landing. Besides, anything you do in life is first practiced in “ideal� conditions (other than a first kiss!)
Nope, a lot of just-plain-nonsense period.

1) With an emergency chute there is no 'flare on landing'.
Most of these chutes pulling both toggles decreases the effective chute
diameter and increases your sink rate (as explained to me by the chute designer).
DO NOT TRY TO FLARE AN EMERGENCY CHUTE.

2) A practice jump will not be with an emergency round chute.
You will get some practice landing but it will be very different...

3) Ground school will include specifics of how to land,
practice landing jumping of a small platform, etc.
Not to mention the mechanics of chute deployment (ie push, not pull).

Please, go get the ground school.
If you want to take a jump, great, but most important is the ground school.

Hope that helps someone out there,
Best Regards, Dave

--
Dan, 5J

On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 1:33:53 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
All of what Dave said is true, unless you wear a ram-air rectangular
emergency chute.Â* For me training at the sky diving club was a great
improvement over my Air Force training since that was geared to round
chutes and I now have a much more maneuverable square chute.

Dave, what do you mean by "push, not pull" on chute deployment? Assuming
you're talking about rip cord use, I'd advise pull straight down with
both hands, not straight out.

Cheers
It has always been and still is called pulling, throwing for main parachutes, but a reserve pull is technically a push. Straight out is best combination of strength and splitting the difference of direction of cable housing. Cables are always from the top on sport gear varies on emergency rigs.
The few glider static lines I've seen clipped to the reserve handle, which isn't ideal but will work. A lot of pilot rigs cannot be reasonably modified to pull the pin from the back.

There appears to be several schools of thought on egress and deployment of an emergency canopy. Having a plan and rehearsing it regularly is the key, I believe.

I was taught to hold one hand over the D-ring as you egress (if possible) to keep it from flapping around, then grab the D-ring with both hands and punch straight out away from your chest (push/punch vs pull.)

Strong deployment training video - https://youtu.be/ccIta-dO40E

Egress procedures - https://youtu.be/hCldGXL-yYo

Why Practice video - https://youtu.be/G8QcTow7t1M

Strong Parachutes has a static line option.

Paul A.
Jupiter, FL

O
Because it is like practicing bleeding. Thirty- forty years ago a friend and I went through ground jump training followed by a jump. Having just had several surgeries on my left foot, I opted not to jump. My friend jumped and ended up with a broken ankle. I lost track of him after about 5 years but he was still walking with a limp.

My favorite story about this was a friend who had lots of skydiver friends and was a glider pilot so he thought he should jump for training. As he was standing in the door about to jump, he turned around to yell to his friends "This is crazy, it has to work the first time anyway!"...

On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 10:26:25 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Static line...Â* Don't forget to disconnect it before getting out after a
normal landing... :-D

We have a Master Rigger who comes to Moriarty each spring and gives a
parachute ground school.Â* He gives a lecture first, then hanging harness
training in the hangar, finally everyone gets a chance to learn to
collapse a canopy in high winds (it's Moriart in the spring!).Â* To do
that, the student dons the harness which is tied by a rope to the bumper
of a truck.Â* Then the canopy is released into the wind.

Collapsing a canopy in the wind is trivial if you know the technique.Â*
Simply grab ONE suspension line and start pulling it in towards
yourself.Â* The canopy will collapse very quickly.Â* What's sobering is
when someone forgets that simple trick and is tossed about like a sack
of meat until a helper collapses the canopy for him.Â* Unrestrained and
without help, that person would go on a long and possibly fatal ride.


On 2/28/2020 9:37 AM, wrote:
As someone who spent their youth engaged in the parachute arts I don't think a practice jump is going to help. Tandem ground school and jump experience is useless, accelerated freefall is better but 99% of it is irrelevant. They are training people to be skydivers, not bailout survivors. Find someone that once jumped lots and now flies sailplanes and have them teach you. Or a rigger, they have an idea of what our community needs to know. Which at its simplest is:
Look for the handle, reach for the handle, pull the handle. And as Dave said in the video consider a static line, if you do use a static line have the same mindset - Look, Reach, Pull. Have a goal of being faster than the static line. You won't be, but you'll survive if you forgot to clip it on.

It has been discussed on RAS before, but who manufactures square ram air style bail out chutes for gliders?

I cannot remember the manufacturer's name. But one in particular had comfortable backpack style ram air chutes that did not require a jump certification.

Thanks for any leads.

On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 3:42:54 PM UTC-5, Mike N. wrote:
It has been discussed on RAS before, but who manufactures square ram air style bail out chutes for gliders?

I cannot remember the manufacturer's name. But one in particular had comfortable backpack style ram air chutes that did not require a jump certification.

Thanks for any leads.

https://rigginginnovations.com/skydi...ency-parachute

Alot of info here so far, Ill just say this. Years ago a good friend of mine who owned a Pik 20, and was a master jumper, was selling his pik. He was a big guy, my size 230 6'2" he wore a square reserve and as he put it "its the largest square reserve I could buy". He sold it to me as my chute was way too small and rather old. Several of us went to a local jump school and did the ground school and a static line jump. I opted for the 5K jump so I could have time under canopy to steer and judge glides ect. I felt it was invaluable experience and am glad I did it.

I have not jumped since but still have one important memory. When they were talking about if the chute doesnt open, then pull the emergency handle. As I let go of the strut on the 182 and arched I was amazed how fast the plane got small and almost simultaneously I thought something should have been happening and a second after I was looking for the handle and then it happened. The chute opened! Yea! They had one way radios and although the jump master on the ground was directing my flight path to the ground, he would have had me overshoot the target, so I ignored him alittle and delayed my turn onto final by a few seconds and landed on the spot. I went down to one knee so flare timing was alittle late but all in all a very good experience.