Virga, rain, cloudsuck - how close do you get?

Typing this with my fireproof suit on...last weekend I tried to duck between two rainy cumulus clouds on my glide back to home base. As I went through the gap it became filled with virga and I was sucked rapidly upwards, probably would have been about 10m/s if I had not had the nose well down. This was not tranquil, but not terrifying either (I was about 3000 ft below cloudbase) and added some useful height and speed.

So here's the question: would you (do you?) deliberately head into virga if you needed the boost, or is this a truly dumb thing to do? Same for rain clouds (assuming you are in updraft not downdraft zone), how close would you get?

Not looking for legal technicalities here, this was good VFR at all times - just trying to calibrate risk.

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 2:19:22 PM UTC-4, ProfJ wrote:
Typing this with my fireproof suit on...last weekend I tried to duck between two rainy cumulus clouds on my glide back to home base. As I went through the gap it became filled with virga and I was sucked rapidly upwards, probably would have been about 10m/s if I had not had the nose well down. This was not tranquil, but not terrifying either (I was about 3000 ft below cloudbase) and added some useful height and speed.

So here's the question: would you (do you?) deliberately head into virga if you needed the boost, or is this a truly dumb thing to do? Same for rain clouds (assuming you are in updraft not downdraft zone), how close would you get?

Not looking for legal technicalities here, this was good VFR at all times - just trying to calibrate risk.

I flew with one of the local icons in Moriarty, NM a few years ago and he showed me the same effect. I did it since then a few times by myself with good success. Smooth, strong lift in light rain. Sounds almost counter-intuitive but it works. Not sure why, though.
However, I would have to caution against doing it, if there is already lightning activity visible.

Uli
'AS'

Not a meteorologist, but perhaps if you were between 2 rain clouds, what you thought was virga might have actually been wispy-like convergence clouds forming as the 2 different downwashes collide to generate lift. You could expect lift there, not a down-draft generated by virga (evaporating moisture cools). As for lift in rain, what is the wing-loading of a raindrop compared to your glider? The rain you ran into could have either been falling or rising depending on sink rate?

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 1:19:22 PM UTC-5, ProfJ wrote:
Typing this with my fireproof suit on...last weekend I tried to duck between two rainy cumulus clouds on my glide back to home base. As I went through the gap it became filled with virga and I was sucked rapidly upwards, probably would have been about 10m/s if I had not had the nose well down. This was not tranquil, but not terrifying either (I was about 3000 ft below cloudbase) and added some useful height and speed.

So here's the question: would you (do you?) deliberately head into virga if you needed the boost, or is this a truly dumb thing to do? Same for rain clouds (assuming you are in updraft not downdraft zone), how close would you get?

Not looking for legal technicalities here, this was good VFR at all times - just trying to calibrate risk.

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 3:41:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Not a meteorologist, but perhaps if you were between 2 rain clouds, what you thought was virga might have actually been wispy-like convergence clouds forming as the 2 different downwashes collide to generate lift. You could expect lift there, not a down-draft generated by virga (evaporating moisture cools). As for lift in rain, what is the wing-loading of a raindrop compared to your glider? The rain you ran into could have either been falling or rising depending on sink rate?
On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 1:19:22 PM UTC-5, ProfJ wrote:
Typing this with my fireproof suit on...last weekend I tried to duck between two rainy cumulus clouds on my glide back to home base. As I went through the gap it became filled with virga and I was sucked rapidly upwards, probably would have been about 10m/s if I had not had the nose well down. This was not tranquil, but not terrifying either (I was about 3000 ft below cloudbase) and added some useful height and speed.

So here's the question: would you (do you?) deliberately head into virga if you needed the boost, or is this a truly dumb thing to do? Same for rain clouds (assuming you are in updraft not downdraft zone), how close would you get?

Not looking for legal technicalities here, this was good VFR at all times - just trying to calibrate risk.
Well I have been doing this for a long time and I never had good results with water on my glass wings! Just something about water and glass wings do not go well together, scotch goes much better with water. Now about that virga , yes, I head toward that area whenever I can. I wish I could post pics here of flying in or near thunder boomers here in Florida. Recently I had to cross two storm systems that looked like a concrete wall on both sides, I tucked and ran through two systems for about 20 miles or so, the lights were flashing all around me and I was along for the ride. Don't you just love flying in Florida in July!
On the good news side the weather here is looking better for this time of year, South Florida is dryer than mid and North. September and October will tell the story about our spring flying, as of now it looks promising, but you never know. Last year was sub par because of the December and January rains, hopefully we can have a great spring once again. So, come on down to the Treasure Coast and fly triangles and stay away from running up and down Hwy 27. Bob

ProfJ wrote on 9/1/2020 11:19 AM:
Typing this with my fireproof suit on...last weekend I tried to duck between two rainy cumulus clouds on my glide back to home base. As I went through the gap it became filled with virga and I was sucked rapidly upwards, probably would have been about 10m/s if I had not had the nose well down. This was not tranquil, but not terrifying either (I was about 3000 ft below cloudbase) and added some useful height and speed.

So here's the question: would you (do you?) deliberately head into virga if you needed the boost, or is this a truly dumb thing to do? Same for rain clouds (assuming you are in updraft not downdraft zone), how close would you get?

Not looking for legal technicalities here, this was good VFR at all times - just trying to calibrate risk.

Be sure it's virga... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObYRYF3d38Y

I'm kidding, a little bit, but I often find virga that is in sinking air. I
usually find lift in the edges of virga, particularly the downwind side. The lift
has always been weak to moderate - a few knots at best - nothing like you describe.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

While considering ProfJ's question, maybe it would be a good idea to read or re-read the excellent "Into the Bowels of Darkness" by Kempton Izuno as a way to become fully enlightened on the subject of flying into or near rain clouds. Check it out starting on page 12 of the 12/2005 edition of the PASCO newsletter. https://www.pacificsoaring.org/westw...2_WestWind.pdf

Robert

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 1:19:22 PM UTC-5, ProfJ wrote:
Typing this with my fireproof suit on...last weekend I tried to duck between two rainy cumulus clouds on my glide back to home base. As I went through the gap it became filled with virga and I was sucked rapidly upwards, probably would have been about 10m/s if I had not had the nose well down. This was not tranquil, but not terrifying either (I was about 3000 ft below cloudbase) and added some useful height and speed.

So here's the question: would you (do you?) deliberately head into virga if you needed the boost, or is this a truly dumb thing to do? Same for rain clouds (assuming you are in updraft not downdraft zone), how close would you get?

Not looking for legal technicalities here, this was good VFR at all times - just trying to calibrate risk.

I would strongly advise avoiding lightning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDhl5dOd4_0

ProfJ- Normally (never?) you won't get lift under virga, only a downdraft accelerated by evaporative cooling. Virga descends from cloud, so I suspect what you saw between rain clouds were the vertical wisps marking conversion updraft and condensation created by the opposing winds. The way you navigated through this was the correct thing to do. The Kempton Izuno article concerned a much more powerful cumulonimbus system that involved a far more risky and avoidable situation. Here's a video that contains relevant cloud formations seen in conversion e.g. @ 5:15 near the glider's vent). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_QplJI30SU

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 1:19:22 PM UTC-5, ProfJ wrote:
Typing this with my fireproof suit on...last weekend I tried to duck between two rainy cumulus clouds on my glide back to home base. As I went through the gap it became filled with virga and I was sucked rapidly upwards, probably would have been about 10m/s if I had not had the nose well down. This was not tranquil, but not terrifying either (I was about 3000 ft below cloudbase) and added some useful height and speed.

So here's the question: would you (do you?) deliberately head into virga if you needed the boost, or is this a truly dumb thing to do? Same for rain clouds (assuming you are in updraft not downdraft zone), how close would you get?

Not looking for legal technicalities here, this was good VFR at all times - just trying to calibrate risk.

On Wednesday, September 2, 2020 at 2:40:57 PM UTC-4, Dee wrote:
ProfJ- Normally (never?) you won't get lift under virga, only a downdraft accelerated by evaporative cooling. Virga descends from cloud, so I suspect what you saw between rain clouds were the vertical wisps marking conversion updraft and condensation created by the opposing winds. The way you navigated through this was the correct thing to do. The Kempton Izuno article concerned a much more powerful cumulonimbus system that involved a far more risky and avoidable situation. Here's a video that contains relevant cloud formations seen in conversion e.g. @ 5:15 near the glider's vent). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_QplJI30SU


"Convergence". Otto Korrekt strikes again?

ProfJ- Normally (never?) you won't get lift under virga, only a downdraft accelerated by evaporative cooling. Virga descends from cloud, so I suspect what you saw between rain clouds were the vertical wisps marking convergence updraft and condensation created by the opposing winds. The way you navigated through this was the correct thing to do. The Kempton Izuno article concerned a much more powerful cumulonimbus system that involved a far more risky and avoidable situation. Here's a video that contains relevant cloud formations seen during convergence (e.g. @ 5:15 near the glider's vent). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_QplJI30SU

(Spell-chick by Moshe)

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 1:19:22 PM UTC-5, ProfJ wrote:
Typing this with my fireproof suit on...last weekend I tried to duck between two rainy cumulus clouds on my glide back to home base. As I went through the gap it became filled with virga and I was sucked rapidly upwards, probably would have been about 10m/s if I had not had the nose well down. This was not tranquil, but not terrifying either (I was about 3000 ft below cloudbase) and added some useful height and speed.

So here's the question: would you (do you?) deliberately head into virga if you needed the boost, or is this a truly dumb thing to do? Same for rain clouds (assuming you are in updraft not downdraft zone), how close would you get?

Not looking for legal technicalities here, this was good VFR at all times - just trying to calibrate risk.