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#31
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Thomas Borchert wrote:
Ah, but it is not branded as advertising, but rather claims to be some objective comparison. Now that I've read it, I have to say that this article is the most blatant piece of propaganda I have read in a long time. Total, utter junk. In my business, such nonsense is called a "whitepaper". If you're careful about what you believe, these can be useful. Think of them as a source of questions rather than answers. - Andrew |
#32
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Well you know there are no truths in the world : )
I agree the article does raise some valid points. It'd be nice if they did some fact checking and were not so biased, but either way there is data in there. I think they're actually hurting their cause, it's hard to take (arguments from) zealots seriously. p.s. As a renter I'm in neither camp. What I get depends on what I need for the day. -lance smith "C J Campbell" wrote in message ... "lance smith" wrote in message m... Did some digging... The administrative contact for airplanenoise.com is Pat Redmond and the website mentions they are located at KOZW. A quick google shows that Pat is the sales guy at Suburban Aviation at KDUH which is the "exclusive Cessna sales representative for Michigan" and has just expanded into KOZW. Ah, well I guess everything it says is untrue then. By extension, we can say that everything that Cirrus supporters say is untrue, because they are also biased. In fact, everything that Kerry says about Bush is untrue, everything that Bush says about Kerry is untrue, and everything that everybody says about Martin Hotze is untrue. :-) |
#33
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C,
Ah, well I guess everything it says is untrue then. Again, the key issue here is that this advertising comes in the disguise of a quasi-objective comparison. THAT is the point. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#34
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Andrew,
If you're careful about what you believe, these can be useful. Think of them as a source of questions rather than answers. I like that. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#35
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Thomas Borchert wrote
If you are prone to spinning airplanes during the turn from base to final in the pattern, please don't buy a Cirrus. Pleas don't buy ANY airplane, in that case. None are any more recoverable than the other. Not true. I know a person who recovered from a low altitude (about 300 ft) unintentional spin on final, and there are others. None of them did it in a 170+ kt IFR cruiser, though. Michael |
#36
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Michael,
Not true. I know a person who recovered from a low altitude (about 300 ft) unintentional spin on final, and there are others. None of them did it in a 170+ kt IFR cruiser, though. Well, time to read the fine print: The Cirrus takes 800 feet or so to recover _from a fully developed spin_. I doubt any other aircraft will take less altitude. It's very unlikely that 300 feet recovery was from a fully developed spin. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#37
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![]() "Thomas Borchert" wrote in message ... Mike, If you are prone to spinning airplanes during the turn from base to final in the pattern, please don't buy a Cirrus. Pleas don't buy ANY airplane, in that case. None are any more recoverable than the other. That is just plane silly (sorry). :-) Seriously, are you suggesting that roll rate and other maneuverability factors are equal in all airplanes? I am certain that it is possible to recover from even an inverted spin from 500 feet in some airplanes. I would bet that it is even possible in a Cessna 172. I haven't tried it, but in such a situation I would add rudder opposite the spin, push the yoke forward to break the stall, add power if not nose down and the engine is still running, otherwise reduce power until the nose comes up. Once the stall is broken then roll wings level and let the engine restart (it probably will quit if you are inverted). Of course, I would be miffed that I managed to get myself into a skidding base to final in the first place. |
#38
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![]() "C J Campbell" wrote in message ... "Thomas Borchert" wrote in message ... Mike, If you are prone to spinning airplanes during the turn from base to final in the pattern, please don't buy a Cirrus. Pleas don't buy ANY airplane, in that case. None are any more recoverable than the other. That is just plane silly (sorry). :-) Seriously, are you suggesting that roll rate and other maneuverability factors are equal in all airplanes? I am certain that it is possible to recover from even an inverted spin from 500 feet in some airplanes. I would bet that it is even possible in a Cessna 172. I haven't tried it, but in such a situation I would add rudder opposite the spin, push the yoke forward to break the stall, add power if not nose down and the engine is still running, otherwise reduce power until the nose comes up. Once the stall is broken then roll wings level and let the engine restart (it probably will quit if you are inverted). Of course, I would be miffed that I managed to get myself into a skidding base to final in the first place. No you are plane silly. I know how to spin. I like spins. I know how to recover. Just like the FAA, I slowly realized that spin recovery has little to do with spin danger for non acro operations. This past Saturday a pilot lost his life a few hundred yards from my house in a stall spin accident. Since the a/c was an extremely manueverable model, it entered the spin quickly. The fact that it occurred about 2 wingspans above the ground made recovery difficult. The point is *not spinning* in normal ops. |
#39
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C,
Yep, and all that in 500 ft. Nice of you to be on the forum, Superman. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#40
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Michael wrote:
I know a person who recovered from a low altitude (about 300 ft) unintentional spin on final.... I suspect you know someone who _claims_ to have done so. Jack |
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