Slavery In Aviation

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 04:28:42 GMT, Bob Dole
wrote:

If the place where I work is telling me to work hour's for free, what
should I do ?

Contact your state department of labor. Explain your situation.
Request documentation containing the pertinent labor laws. Read the
law, and decide to file a complaint or not.

"Bob Dole" wrote in message
news:y4Erb.158869$e01.564060@attbi_s02...

If the place where I work is telling me to work hour's for free, what
should I do ?

I am worried that working for free is illegal, immoral, unethical, and
unprofessional, and I am also worried that it exposes me to the
possibility
of an IRS audit as I could be accused of getting paid "under the table"
(tax evasion etc.).

I appreciate any reply's.

(the following is spoken with an 'Arabian Nights' theme playing in the
background)

"Why YES there must be aviation slaves,,, servant, bring on the dancing
girls!!!......"

('Arabian Nights' theme abruptly ends as wife walks in and banishes the
dancing girls :-/ )


Seriously though, it is unethical and (under California labor law), illegal
for an employer to compel an employee to perform services for a firm, for no
compensation.

Find somewhere else to go, is probably the best approach. (if in California
((can't speak for other states)) send a concise well thought-out letter to
the labor commissioner's office - they will find this practice MOST
interesting).... I'm not an attorney,,, just my two cents (which may be
really what this advice is worth,,,, YMMV)

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

Check out my personal flying adventures: www.bayareapilot.com

"Bob Dole" wrote in message news:y4Erb.158869$e01.564060@attbi_s02...

I am worried that working for free is illegal, immoral, unethical, and
unprofessional,

I'm not going to argue the latter three, but it's probably not illegal in
most cases.

and I am also worried that it exposes me to the possibility
of an IRS audit as I could be accused of getting paid "under the table"
(tax evasion etc.).

Unlikely.

Bob Dole wrote in message news:y4Erb.158869$e01.564060@attbi_s02...
If the place where I work is telling me to work hour's for free, what
should I do ?

Depends.

I am worried that working for free is illegal, immoral, unethical, and
unprofessional, and I am also worried that it exposes me to the possibility
of an IRS audit as I could be accused of getting paid "under the table"
(tax evasion etc.).

You left out "fattening" *g*

1) why are you instructing? if your primary motivation is to
build a lot of hours while someone else is paying for the plane
and you're getting paid (something), are you fulfilling your
motivation? Could you do so better somewhere else?
2) what is your employer wanting you to do "for free" and when?
3) was this explained to you when you took the job?

Oh, and last but not least: are you free to walk out the door
and take another job, or aren't you? There are plenty of slaves
in the world today. Usually people who are stolen from their
homes at gunpoint or children who are sold by desperately impoverished
parents, and forced to work under threat of physical harm under
whatever living conditions and hours their "owner" cares to
impose with no choice practically available to them.

It's horrible.

And somehow I doubt it applies to you.

Cheers,
Sydney

You are better off checking with your state's labor board than with this
news group.

Most states have minimum wage laws and they insist that you be paid for time
spent instructing, attending mandatory meetings, manning the pilot shop or
desk, locking up at night, etc. They also insist that all such time be
included when calculating mandatory overtime.

Flight schools attempt to avoid these laws either by flagrantly ignoring
them or by insisting that their instructors are 'independent contractors,'
which they are not. Flight instructors are not management, either.

If you think you have a legitimate beef, file a complaint with your state's
labor board.

Flight instructors are grossly underpaid as it is. Just because unfair labor
practices are common does not make them right.

"Bob Dole" wrote in message
news:y4Erb.158869$e01.564060@attbi_s02...

If the place where I work is telling me to work hour's for free, what
should I do ?

I am worried that working for free is illegal, immoral, unethical, and
unprofessional, and I am also worried that it exposes me to the
possibility
of an IRS audit as I could be accused of getting paid "under the table"
(tax evasion etc.).

I appreciate any replie's.

As others have said, you don't supply enough details for anyone here to
really comment much on.

Also, you have already been given replies that pretty much run the board. I
will add this: When I was flight instructing pretty much everyone of us was
expected to answer phones, straighten up the snack room, make coffee, help
put supplies away, inventory stock, etc., etc., etc. We shoveled snow off
the steps, cleaned airplanes, preheated planes in the winter - you get the
idea, lots of things that weren't flying or instructing. Heck, we even had
to spend a few evenings a year at a sports and vacation show booth answering
question about learning to fly. We even made calls to people who visited
the booth trying to drum up business. You know what? No one complained.
You know why? Because all of us wanted to progress in our career and that
was the way to start out doing it.

You call it Slavery, we called it Work Ethic.

My advice: Sure, you can call the Labor Commission, you can talk to a
lawyer, you could file a complaint. Then what? Then you are labeled a
trouble maker, a whiner, etc. and there goes your references for better
employment.

Do as others here have suggested - if it's that bad, get out. If not, grin
and bear it.

"Gary Mishler" wrote in message
news:tEOrb.161931$Fm2.143657@attbi_s04...
|
| "Bob Dole" wrote in message
| news:y4Erb.158869$e01.564060@attbi_s02...
|
|
| You call it Slavery, we called it Work Ethic.
|
| My advice: Sure, you can call the Labor Commission, you can talk to a
| lawyer, you could file a complaint. Then what? Then you are labeled a
| trouble maker, a whiner, etc. and there goes your references for better
| employment.
|
| Do as others here have suggested - if it's that bad, get out. If not,
grin
| and bear it.

Hmmm. If you talked that way to a migrant worker, you would be clapped in
irons.

Hmmm. If you talked that way to a migrant worker, you would be clapped in
irons.

Yeah, sure.

And if Warren Sapp were a flight instructor, he'd be complaining about being
"enslaved" for a lot less than the $5 million per year he's making now...

Sapp's a moron, and this whole thread is ridiculous.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

after reading all the other posts..

the local Flight School pays a "base rate" on the hours spent at the
"office/airport/school" doing company business. Then plusses up the pay
based on flight hours.. with "graduations" in pay based on number of hours
flown. Base rate is determined by level of CFI, CFII, CFII-ME etc.. and the
plussed up rate is also based on the instructors qualifications..

encourages instructors to
1) "man the phones",
2) "support the front desk",
3) "be available for that walk-in demo ride or visitor who wants to fly the
area but needs a checkout or just a safety instructor.
4) get qualified on the schools fuel truck (they only refuel school
aircraft) their "turn on the truck" is covered with their "base pay"
5) move up in their instructor qualifications

Most instructors at this school are graduates of Embry Riddle or University
of North Dakota (they come south to escape the 4yrs up north) and are only
around about 12-18months before moving on to other career advancing
employment.

BT

"Bob Dole" wrote in message
news:y4Erb.158869$e01.564060@attbi_s02...

If the place where I work is telling me to work hour's for free, what
should I do ?

I am worried that working for free is illegal, immoral, unethical, and
unprofessional, and I am also worried that it exposes me to the
possibility
of an IRS audit as I could be accused of getting paid "under the table"
(tax evasion etc.).

I appreciate any replie's.

Bob Dole writes:

If the place where I work is telling me to work hour's for free, what
should I do ?

Doctors, lawyers, engineers, managers....anybody with a job title that
is remotely "professional" sounding is paid a fixed salary, which if
you want means they work for "free" if they work beyond 40 hours.
Though I hear that even WalMart clerks are called "Associates" or
something and management tries to get unpaid work from them.