Air Force One seen by BA pilot

On 28 Nov 2003 10:37:39 -0800, Milo wrote:

First of all, did that BA pilot have binoculars?
How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect
wherever AF1 goes in the world.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

*Aheeeem* the FAA only works within the US of A. And there are countries
left with their own government and airspace. ;-)

#m
--
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:19:24 -0600, Big John wrote:

Glad he made the trip. Troops got a boost. Shows he can move any place
he wants without being stopped by any terrorist organization.

Hey! I went shopping today and I too wasn't stopped neither by police nor
by terrorists. So who is responsible for this big improvement? *haha*

#m

--
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"Jay Somerset" wrote in message
...

A tall tale. If another aircraft really had eyeballed "AF1" and called up
as stated, the AF1 pilot would have just ignored the call.

It's been widely reported in both broadcast and print media and has been
confirmed through gov't sources. Knight Ridder Newspapers even printed a
quote from the AF1 captain. No one is trying to keep it a secret.

Also very unlikely that any other aircraft would be able to get into
visual
range -- AF1 would have deviated to maintain greater separation. They do
have better than average radar, you know. :-)

Many times over the years AF1 has been on the same center frequency as me.
On more than one occasion I have "eyeballed" it inflight myself. Not really
that unusual actually.

Mish

Mish

I thought center gave vertical and horizontal separation for birds on
same over water route? Didn't they a few years ago reduce vertical
separation from 2K to 1K if certain (new accurate alt measuring)
equipment was on board the aircraft to increase (double) traffic
density on the overseas routes?

If flight was direct from way point to way point then I doubt if the
birds came within visual range??? Would be an odd throw of the dice.

That said, I can postulate a situation where two birds with a few
thousand feet vertical clearance going the same direction on the same
route and with different cruising speeds, slowly pass each other and
BA be able to recognize the distinctive paint job on AF1. This in day
light of course.

BA upon landing and telling story (Gulf Stream) around Ops, someone
would have called media (always some blabber mouth) and media would
have added 99 and 99 and gotten 1 and broke the story someplace in the
world from where it would have been picked up and gone like wildfire
to everywhere.

Now if the so called reply had been "Naw, we just got a special load
of Thanksgiving 'turkeys' for the troops", might have been a better
put off G

Tale has a lot of characteristics of a good bar story (another double,
bar keep) or news milking every story for a 'human interest' slant.

Good show George.

Big John


On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 15:47:38 GMT, "Gary Mishler"
wrote:

"Jay Somerset" wrote in message
.. .

A tall tale. If another aircraft really had eyeballed "AF1" and called up
as stated, the AF1 pilot would have just ignored the call.

It's been widely reported in both broadcast and print media and has been
confirmed through gov't sources. Knight Ridder Newspapers even printed a
quote from the AF1 captain. No one is trying to keep it a secret.

Also very unlikely that any other aircraft would be able to get into
visual
range -- AF1 would have deviated to maintain greater separation. They do
have better than average radar, you know. :-)

Many times over the years AF1 has been on the same center frequency as me.
On more than one occasion I have "eyeballed" it inflight myself. Not really
that unusual actually.

Mish

Big John wrote:

I thought center gave vertical and horizontal separation for birds on
same over water route?

Perhaps AF1 wasn't talking to center?

George Patterson
Some people think they hear a call to the priesthood when what they really
hear is a tiny voice whispering "It's indoor work with no heavy lifting".

Big John wrote

If flight was direct from way point to way point then I doubt if
the birds came within visual range??? Would be an odd throw of
the dice.

Aircraft across the North Atlantic fly on the Organized NA Tracks.
They are similiar to airways but change every 12 hours or so
depending on winds and traffic needs.

That said, I can postulate a situation where two birds with a
few thousand feet vertical clearance going the same direction on
the same route and with different cruising speeds, slowly pass
each other and BA be able to recognize the distinctive paint job
on AF1. This in day light of course.

It was not difficult at all to recognize aircraft type and operator
when overtaking (or being overtaken) by traffic that was 2,000'
higher or lower. Used to have (1980's) some interesting
conversations with Air Force C-141 types who were "getting out"
soon about "who's hiring and what's the job like". They typically
were cruising at M.76 as we went by at M.82 in the B-707s.

Bob Moore

"Big John" wrote in message
...

That said, I can postulate a situation where two birds with a few
thousand feet vertical clearance going the same direction on the same
route and with different cruising speeds, slowly pass each other and
BA be able to recognize the distinctive paint job on AF1. This in day
light of course.

I thought any aircraft which caries the President is refered to as Air Force
1?
I do not know but I would guess he left the flashy blue and white bird on
the safe side of town.

Pat Thronson

In a previous article, "Pat Thronson" said:
I thought any aircraft which caries the President is refered to as Air
Force 1? I do not know but I would guess he left the flashy blue and
white bird on the safe side of town.

The flashy blue and white bird has a few things your average Gulfstream V
doesn't, like anti-missile flares and air-to-air refueling. I'm sure he'd
feel a lot safer in his normal bird.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more
interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim ."
E. W. Dijkstra

"Big John" wrote in message
...

I thought center gave vertical and horizontal separation for birds on
same over water route?

They do.

Didn't they a few years ago reduce vertical
separation from 2K to 1K if certain (new accurate alt measuring)
equipment was on board the aircraft to increase (double) traffic
density on the overseas routes?

Yes, it's called RVSM = Reduced Verticle Seperation Minimums

If flight was direct from way point to way point then I doubt if the
birds came within visual range??? Would be an odd throw of the dice.

Huh? With all do respect, I do this for a living and there are "birds"
somewhere in the Flight Levels that come within visual range of each other
(both same and opposite direction) every minuite of every day. We are often
able to visually identify company paint schemes and aircraft types (again
both same and opposite direction) all the time. There is nothing odd about
it at all. Plus, with the 1K RVSM sep that you talk about above, it would
be even easier.

That said, I can postulate a situation where two birds with a few
thousand feet vertical clearance going the same direction on the same
route and with different cruising speeds, slowly pass each other and
BA be able to recognize the distinctive paint job on AF1. This in day
light of course.

In the real world "birds" don't just flash past each other in the FL's in
the blink of an eye. Even if opposite direction you usually have several
seconds of good visual (weather conditions permiting, of course) opportunity
for an identification.

Tale has a lot of characteristics of a good bar story ...

I disagree. To those of us in the trenches (er, Flight Levels) it has the
characteristics of an entirley plausable event that happens every day.

Good show George.

Agreed.

Regards,
Mish

"Pat Thronson" wrote in message
et...


I thought any aircraft which caries the President is refered to as Air
Force
1?

Any Air Force aircraft with Prez on board is AF1.
Any Marine aircraft (such as the helicopter ride in/out of White House lawn)
is Marine 1, Navy aircraft is Navy 1, etc, etc.

I do not know but I would guess he left the flashy blue and white bird on
the safe side of town.

Nope, he took Big Bird - range, communications, countermeasures, press,
staff, etc. I believe there are pictures of it on the ramp in Baghdad.