Ever stuck your neck out too far? And got away with it?

In a previous Monday morning quarterback argument:

"He abdicated complete personal responsibility for any kind of
contingency plan or consideration of how he was going to get back with
limited fuel."

Bruce Hamilton

And what the hell else do you expect them to say????

Jerry:
You have stretched this about as far as possible. Your logic is flawed and
you are coming across as just plane silly.
Jimmy


Pac sez:

Well Guys, I think Jerry actually has a valid point. Government
agencies frequently dig in their heels when a public acusation of
unreasonablness is levied at them. Ever been over a pole? I bet only
one percent of the readers here have.

Infrequently, Polar track flights would have to venture that far North
due to congestion. But comming from Frankfurt, Sonderstrom and Bodo
FIR's would not allow you to proceed into the Polar track system (PTS)
unless you had broke into busy HF well prior to approaching the PTS
gateway and patiently waited for that essential clearance. Poor
planning or Sunspot activity? Tough situation. The Europe H/Lchart
stated in boldface you were to not to proceed past that point without
that clearance.(means: go into holding and burn up your fuel reserve.)
We kept trucking one day without it, (too heavy, no gas
to screw around with) and were told 80 miles into the Polar track,
when we finally raised them, that we were head-to-head with a
Northwest 74 out of PANC at that future altitude. We had to stay at
280 and 290 most of the way and landed with iffy fuel in Anc! We were
not popular! But luckily, they didn't turn us in. Poor planning?
Irresponsible? Yes, I guess it was. Next time I'll hire a fortune
teller to predict those sunspots and ship in 200,000 pounds of fuel
inside the arctic cirle somewhere! ;-)

The "Asia direct" flying (as it was called) was challenging but fun.
Many flights started over 800,000 lbs. Diverting into any old
slippery field under 10,000 feet long risked running off the end.

And if you turn back every time something goes wrong with the
government system, you'll just never get anywhere.

No, I say Jon Johanson did all right. Buy that man a Foster's!

happy holidays,

pacplyer

(Ever venture too far in your airplane?)

(pacplyer) wrote in message . com...
In a previous Monday morning quarterback argument:

"He abdicated complete personal responsibility for any kind of
contingency plan or consideration of how he was going to get back with
limited fuel."

Bruce Hamilton

And what the hell else do you expect them to say????

Jerry:
You have stretched this about as far as possible. Your logic is flawed and
you are coming across as just plane silly.
Jimmy


Pac sez:

Well Guys, I think Jerry actually has a valid point. Government
agencies frequently dig in their heels when a public acusation of
unreasonablness is levied at them. Ever been over a pole? I bet only
one percent of the readers here have.

Without going thru the rest of your interesting and poignant post, I
completely agree with you. I don't know how many times I have poked
outside the envelope because of conditions that I couldn't control.
Those who are quick to point a finger and say "you should do this, or
that..." are not very well adapted to aviation. Yeh yeh I
know...regulations are there to protect you etc, etc. Well, I've been
flying over 40 years now and have been places that books are written
about and I'd have never been there if I always followed the rules.
And, the people who follow have the advantage of my having gone first
to plot the way. I think the same of those who I have followed and am
always amazed and humbled when I see what they did.
I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.
Doing what the rest work from after we push the envelope and see how
far we can go.
No So Shy & Bashful with 21,000+ hours and still not done......


Infrequently, Polar track flights would have to venture that far North
due to congestion. But comming from Frankfurt, Sonderstrom and Bodo
FIR's would not allow you to proceed into the Polar track system (PTS)
unless you had broke into busy HF well prior to approaching the PTS
gateway and patiently waited for that essential clearance. Poor
planning or Sunspot activity? Tough situation. The Europe H/Lchart
stated in boldface you were to not to proceed past that point without
that clearance.(means: go into holding and burn up your fuel reserve.)
We kept trucking one day without it, (too heavy, no gas
to screw around with) and were told 80 miles into the Polar track,
when we finally raised them, that we were head-to-head with a
Northwest 74 out of PANC at that future altitude. We had to stay at
280 and 290 most of the way and landed with iffy fuel in Anc! We were
not popular! But luckily, they didn't turn us in. Poor planning?
Irresponsible? Yes, I guess it was. Next time I'll hire a fortune
teller to predict those sunspots and ship in 200,000 pounds of fuel
inside the arctic cirle somewhere! ;-)

The "Asia direct" flying (as it was called) was challenging but fun.
Many flights started over 800,000 lbs. Diverting into any old
slippery field under 10,000 feet long risked running off the end.

And if you turn back every time something goes wrong with the
government system, you'll just never get anywhere.

No, I say Jon Johanson did all right. Buy that man a Foster's!

happy holidays,

pacplyer

(Ever venture too far in your airplane?)

I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.
Doing what the rest work from after we push the envelope and see how


buddy you sound like a daredevil thrill seeking idiot
you may get a buzz trying to be a man flying aboout on near empty tanks ...
intelligent people know better

I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.


I'd have to assume this is military or life-and-death missions. If not, I'd
question your risk/reward equation.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

On 30 Dec 2003 09:49 AM, HiM posted the
following:


I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the
whole way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I
can under trying conditions. Doing what the rest work from after we
push the envelope and see how


buddy you sound like a daredevil thrill seeking idiot
you may get a buzz trying to be a man flying aboout on near empty
tanks ... intelligent people know better

Your email address says it all.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.


I'd have to assume this is military or life-and-death missions. If not, I'd
question your risk/reward equation.


Don't you guys recall the scene in "And Justice For All", where Jack Warden
takes Al Pacino for a helicopter ride? This stuff happens all the time. G




www.Rosspilot.com

(SelwayKid) wrote:

Well, I've been
flying over 40 years now and have been places that books are written
about and I'd have never been there if I always followed the rules.
And, the people who follow have the advantage of my having gone first
to plot the way. I think the same of those who I have followed and am
always amazed and humbled when I see what they did.
I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.
Doing what the rest work from after we push the envelope and see how
far we can go.
No So Shy & Bashful with 21,000+ hours and still not done......
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Zowie... but aren't you the flamboyant swashbuckler.

Related to the infamous Capt Zoom Campbell, maybe?

Would you like to be a staff writer for Zoom?
He can be contacted at Aero Snooze Nooz.
He's always looking for trailblazers and legends like himself.

Tell him...
Unka BOb -- sent ya.

On 30 Dec 2003 20:48:24 GMT, Del Rawlins
wrote:

On 30 Dec 2003 09:49 AM, HiM posted the
following:


I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the
whole way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I
can under trying conditions. Doing what the rest work from after we
push the envelope and see how


buddy you sound like a daredevil thrill seeking idiot
you may get a buzz trying to be a man flying aboout on near empty
tanks ... intelligent people know better

Your email address says it all.

It's a rare pilot who hasn't had the weather change unexpectedly, or
something fail at a very inopportune time if they've been flying for a
while. I'm paranoid about fuel so it's unlikely I'll ever run out,
but OTOH **** happens. I carry enough gas to make a 300 to 400 mile
detour is necessary.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com



----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Thanks Selway,

It only took a week for someone to spot my great writing ;-) , but now
that you've let the cat out of the bag, we must both pay the price of
being real pilots... we must face the wrath of the RAH and the RAP
private-pilot peanut galleries! :-#

Actually, there is just no higher form of flattery around here... than
being flamed by these fearless Lyco and Continental minute men
(they're fearless for a whole minute after leaving the ground!)
Flames are their way of saying: "You cocky *******, I would kill to
get a shot over the pole! But alas, I'll be stuck here in this
cornfield forever." (Even I had that fear for the first few years.
Then that fear was replaced with the fear of never seeing my family
again; i.e., living my whole life out in dingy hotels) :-(

Just try to explain to these "weekend weenies" as BWB calls them, that
commercial flying, a lot of the time, blocks-out no matter what the
true weather or maintenance concerns are... And they'll probably whip
out their regs and stammer "but..but..but...it says..here...oh, you
beastly daredevil men you!"

So, it is believable to read about an occasional tight fuel situation;
after all, if it's commercial aviation (esp. int'l) over that many
years, stuff happens. As long as you don't f$#k up, the rest of the
world just assumes that flying is by-the-book-safe (just as there are
never any deviations from homebuilding plans among EAA members. Ask
Dan Rather.) ;-) OTOH, running on the ragged edge all the time is
hard to believe. No commercial pilot that I know refers to
frequently flying "out of the envelope" or "places that books are
written about" or "seeing how far I can go." This sounds more like
fraudulent test pilot speak. But never-the-less, I enjoyed reading
your zooming post. :-)

There are only two things bugging me right now. One, I smell a setup.
Usually, no one around here agrees with anything I say this fast.
Two, there's just no way now the "dysfunctional duo" (Captain Ripcord
and Robin the Rican) are going to hire me as a roving reporter (darn,
all my talent gone to waste!) That's not possible now that Barnyard
Bob has just announced that we are on par with these Aviation Lizards,
er … I mean Aviation Legends (where did that come from?) Gee, thanks
Bob… for once I'm actually speechless.

For more unbelievable tales from around the world, stay tuned to this
EAA caped-crusader station. :^D LOL!

pacplyer

(good ruse by the way!)


(SelwayKid) wrote in message . com...

SelwayKid wrote:
Without going thru the rest of your interesting and poignant post, I
completely agree with you. I don't know how many times I have poked
outside the envelope because of conditions that I couldn't control.
Those who are quick to point a finger and say "you should do this, or
that..." are not very well adapted to aviation. Yeh yeh I
know...regulations are there to protect you etc, etc. Well, I've been
flying over 40 years now and have been places that books are written
about and I'd have never been there if I always followed the rules.
And, the people who follow have the advantage of my having gone first
to plot the way. I think the same of those who I have followed and am
always amazed and humbled when I see what they did.
I don't even bother thinking of the many times when I landed with
either a helicopter or airplane on fumes and sweating it out the whole
way. Stupid? Nope... just a professional working the best way I can
under trying conditions.
Doing what the rest work from after we push the envelope and see how
far we can go.
No So Shy & Bashful with 21,000+ hours and still not done......

You sound just like Rick Collins.
He's very dead now.

Tilly