Simulated Engine Outs

I can pass that FAR.. the problem is connecting the mind to the phat
phingers on the computer keyboard.. and then trusting a spell checker..

so go pound sand..

BT

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
. 6...
"BTIZ" wrote

I new and instructor that would move........

Was this supposed to read ?

"I knew an instructor...."

I wonder how some of our NG posters met FAR 61.103 ? :-)

Section 61.103: Eligibility requirements: General.
To be eligible for a private pilot certificate, a person must:
(c) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English
language.

Bob Moore

(Michael) wrote in message . com...
Big John wrote
Probably one rational behind keeping engine warm is that if you go to
idle and glide a long time the engine will cool down. You then slap on
full power and the cylinders are hit with a high temperature all of a
sudden.

That's probably the best rationale I've ever heard for 1500 RPM and
one notch of flaps. We all worry about shock cooling, but letting the
engine cool off and then pouring on the coals is a recipe for shock
heating. I might rethink the way I do this...

Of course idle engine will not duplicate aircraft performance with
dead engine.

No it won't. It's also a great recipe for icing up the carb. For
both those reasons, I usually pull the mixture to idle. That way you
get a true windmilling engine, and since no fuel is evaporating in the
carb there's no risk of ice.

Carb heat should be the first thing applied when the engine
"quits." Carb icing is the most common cause of engine failure, and if
the pilot is a bit slow in pulling it, there won't be any heat left to
remove the ice. As it is, he'll be lucky to regain power. Some folks
aren't aware of decreasing RPM or manifold pressure until things get
real quiet.
Pulling mix to idle cutoff has caused several accidents in
Canada, and it's no longer part of the simulated forced approach.

Dan

You can simulate a engine out approach by adding just enough drag to
offset the engine rpm. In the Canadian PTS, this was specifically
mentioned as an acceptable practice. However, as others have pointed
out there is no clear evidence to support the shock cooling theory in
small aircraft. Some believe it exists, and some don't.

You have to do whatever you feel is necessary to safely simulate an
engine out approach. There is nothing wrong with leaving 1500 RPM and
using flaps. Even if you pull the power back completely, one can argue
that frequently clearing the engine unrealistically increases the
glide range. The effect of power on glide performance is not all that
different than the effects of wind. There are too many variables to
claim that one way is better than another. It all comes down to what
the pilot is comfortable with.





"BTIZ" wrote in message news:nl_Wb.15852$IF1.7345@fed1read01...
you don't get much of an "engine out" at 1500RPM

sort of builds a false sense of security of the seemingly good glide ratio

BT

"BoDEAN" wrote in message
...
In small high wing planes (Ie 172, 152, 150) do you do/teach pulling
throttle all the back to idel? I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1
notch of flaps. Not as hard on the engine

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
. 6...
"BTIZ" wrote

I new and instructor that would move........

Was this supposed to read ?

"I knew an instructor...."

I wonder how some of our NG posters met FAR 61.103 ? :-)

Section 61.103: Eligibility requirements: General.
To be eligible for a private pilot certificate, a person must:
(c) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English
language.


Bob, you must unnderstan that their jus publik skool and collage studints.

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:VorXb.16815$IF1.8472@fed1read01...
I can pass that FAR.. the problem is connecting the mind to the phat
phingers on the computer keyboard.. and then trusting a spell checker..

Can you connect your finegers to the controls of the aircraft?


so go pound sand..

If you can't connect properly, you just might pound sand in a nose down
attitude.

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, BTIZ wrote:

Some instructors might not teach it, but the club I'm with does at least.
(My instructor had been taught by our Chief Flight Instructor, who was
also my PPL flight test examiner...)


That explains why he knows to clear the engine

Engine clearing is also mentioned explicitly as part of simulated engine
outs in Canadian training manuals.

As for my training arrangement, I really think I've lucked out. Having
heard so many horror stories on here and elsewhere about barely competent,
unsupervised instructors, shabbily run schools, and dodgy FBOs, it all
makes the Club seem even better. Our Chief Flight Instructor is usually a
DE as well, and trains most of the other instructors in the club; he
maintains the school side of the outfit to good standards. The business
side of the Club is equally well run - last weekend one of the new office
staff messed up a plane booking I phoned in, and the manager, without
hesitation, gave me a 30% discount on the next booking I made...

Brian.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 at 23:19:07 in message
c.ca, Brian Burger
wrote:
Really? I got my PPL in 2002, from an instructor who'd only being flying
for four years (yes, aviation's favourite whipping boy, the 21-year old
career-bound instructor...) and engine clearing every 1000ft or so was
absolutely standard procedure.

As it was also presented to me when I had flying lessons in 1954!

--
David CL Francis

"David CL Francis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 at 23:19:07 in message
c.ca, Brian Burger
wrote:
Really? I got my PPL in 2002, from an instructor who'd only being flying
for four years (yes, aviation's favourite whipping boy, the 21-year old
career-bound instructor...) and engine clearing every 1000ft or so was
absolutely standard procedure.

As it was also presented to me when I had flying lessons in 1954!

--
David CL Francis

Clearing the engine when an airport is not at hand seems like a prudent
procedure. I have had instructors let me take it all the way to 200 feet
within a farmer's field - clearing the engine periodically all the way down.
Over an airport, throttle to idle all the way to touchdown. This combination
of training seems like a good combination to me.

-------------------------------
Travis

"EDR" wrote in message
...
In article , Cub Driver
wrote:

In small high wing planes (Ie 172, 152, 150) do you do/teach pulling
throttle all the back to idel? I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1
notch of flaps. Not as hard on the engine

Crikey, the Cub will pretty much fly at 1500 rpm.
I bring it back to the stop. Then I goose it every couple or three
minutes--I've never noticed how frequently.

John, you have to remember that modern instructors do not teach
"clearing the engine" as we were taught with the Champs, Cubs, etc.

Well, yes they are. In fact, it is specifically mentioned in the commercial
pilot PTS in the United States. I think it should be taught to private
pilots as well.

"Michael" wrote in message

That's probably the best rationale I've ever heard for 1500 RPM and
one notch of flaps. We all worry about shock cooling

Actually, no we do not all worry about shock cooling. Neither do we all
worry about shock heating. Many highly respected pilots and mechanics
believe that shock cooling and shock heating are myths, at least for modern
aircraft engines. The manufacturers have also said that shock cooling and
shock heating should not be a problem -- of course, maybe they like to sell
replacement engines. :-)

I seriously doubt that shock cooling is much of a problem on training
aircraft, at least. These airplanes are subjected to all kinds of supposed
mistreatment, but their engines almost always make it to TBO.