Does the CFI ride count towards your BFR?

BoDEAN wrote in message . ..
Can't get a clear cut answer from anyone on this....
Got my CFI last may, does my 24 calendar months start on that date til
when I need a BFR?
Or would I have to go back to my Multi Training for a starting date

No, checkrides for an Instructor's certificate do not count toward a
BFR. Only checkrides towards a Pilot certificate count. I had a guy at
the FSDO actually try to explain it to me but I still don't think it
makes sense. The FDSO guy said something like Instructor certificates
do not specifically requiring flying, the checkride could be done by
evaluation, not demonstration (different CFI examiners seem to do
differing amount of evaluating vs. flying on the CFI checkrides).
For some reason the FARs are very specific when they say "pilot
certificate". I'm not sure if they were trying to exclude instructors
or perhaps some A&Ps were trying to claim their A&P practical test
from an examiner counted toward a BFR.


-Robert, CFI

"Brad Z" wrote
In reality, I doubt this is enforced by the FSDO's.

I've seen it enforced.

The situation was that there was an accident, it clearly wasn't pilot
error (engine quit at low altitude, not due to fuel starvation,
everyone walked away) but the FAA inspector took a dislike to the
pilot and wanted to get him. Couldn't get him on anything related to
the accident (there were just too many witnesses) so got him on flying
out of BFR by deciding that the CFII ride taken a few months ago
didn't count.

Michael

Even if it was a year ago??


On Thu, 13 May 2004 15:21:26 GMT, zatatime
wrote:

On Thu, 13 May 2004 05:24:46 GMT, Greg Esres
wrote:

The FARs do not says that, nor does AOPA's legal department.

Yes, the FARs do, as noted below. It says "pilot certificate", not
"any certificate" as AOPA says.

61.56
...
(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of
this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an
examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a
PILOT certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish
the flight review required by this section



Given the fine line between certificate and pilot certificate. I do
believe you are still legal according to this reg. After pilot
certificate it states "rating, or operating privilege." A CFI is not
a rating, but is an additional privilege so if you are looking for a
fine line technicality you have it within the constructs of 61.56(d).

There is also something called the spirit of the law which plays
heavily in decisions made by courts where an issue is raised over such
a minute detail. The spirit of this law appears to encompass all
ratings/certificates so you really don't have a problem.

As others have said...If you are worried about it have the guy who
signed you off for the ride give you a BFR, I doubt he'd have a
problem with it.

z

An examiner won't likely sign you off. They're not supposed to instruct.
Your endorsing instructor could, though.

If tracking that instructor down is a problem, just do a BFR, dude. If you
instruct at a flight school, finding another CFI to fly with you and sign
you off shouldn't be a problem.

"BoDEAN" wrote in message
news
Even if it was a year ago??


On Thu, 13 May 2004 15:21:26 GMT, zatatime
wrote:

On Thu, 13 May 2004 05:24:46 GMT, Greg Esres
wrote:

The FARs do not says that, nor does AOPA's legal department.

Yes, the FARs do, as noted below. It says "pilot certificate", not
"any certificate" as AOPA says.

61.56
...
(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of
this section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an
examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a
PILOT certificate, rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish
the flight review required by this section



Given the fine line between certificate and pilot certificate. I do
believe you are still legal according to this reg. After pilot
certificate it states "rating, or operating privilege." A CFI is not
a rating, but is an additional privilege so if you are looking for a
fine line technicality you have it within the constructs of 61.56(d).

There is also something called the spirit of the law which plays
heavily in decisions made by courts where an issue is raised over such
a minute detail. The spirit of this law appears to encompass all
ratings/certificates so you really don't have a problem.

As others have said...If you are worried about it have the guy who
signed you off for the ride give you a BFR, I doubt he'd have a
problem with it.

z

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
...
neither the FAA nor the AOPA have said that there is a requirement
for the examiner to sign off the check ride as a

The FAA said, via the FAQs:

However, to make sure the applicant gets credit for successful
completion of the Flight Review, the examiner should record that the
§61.56 Flight Review was satisfactorily completed in the applicant's
logbook.



Since when did "should" become "must?"

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
BoDEAN wrote in message
. ..
Can't get a clear cut answer from anyone on this....
Got my CFI last may, does my 24 calendar months start on that date til
when I need a BFR?
Or would I have to go back to my Multi Training for a starting date

No, checkrides for an Instructor's certificate do not count toward a
BFR. Only checkrides towards a Pilot certificate count. I had a guy at
the FSDO actually try to explain it to me but I still don't think it
makes sense. The FDSO guy said something like Instructor certificates
do not specifically requiring flying, the checkride could be done by
evaluation, not demonstration (different CFI examiners seem to do
differing amount of evaluating vs. flying on the CFI checkrides).
For some reason the FARs are very specific when they say "pilot
certificate". I'm not sure if they were trying to exclude instructors
or perhaps some A&Ps were trying to claim their A&P practical test
from an examiner counted toward a BFR.

The FSDO guy is wrong. The CFI ride requires flying according to the PTS.
There is no avoiding it. Any FSDO guy who is that ignorant about the CFI
check ride is completely incompetent.

Since when did "should" become "must?"

Since when did an "instructor" certificate become a "pilot"
certificate?

In the end, it doesn't matter what Mr. Lynch or anyone else says on
the matter. The regulation reads the way it reads.

I pay AOPA $52 each year for legal services. I called them. They
assured me that my CFI checkrides count. I'm set.

Here is the text of an email exchange I had with AOPA:

------------snip--------------------------------------
GE: Can you explain why your guide says that a "Flight test for any
certificate or rating" counts as a Flight Review when 61.56(d) clearly
says that only flight tests for PILOT certificates or ratings count?
(The Flight Instructor certificate is not a PILOT certificate.)

Thank you.


AOPA: Thank you for writing AOPA. Yes, you are correct a flight test
for a CFI is only counted as a flight review if you discuss it with
the examiner beforehand and he/she signs you off for one after the
test. If you need anything else please do not hesitate to email me
personally. Have a great day.

GE: Will AOPA correct its web page on the Flight Review with regards
to this?

AOPA: I already contacted the appropriate people. Thank you for your
email.

------------snip--------------------------------------

thanx Greg..

BT

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
...
I pay AOPA $52 each year for legal services. I called them. They
assured me that my CFI checkrides count. I'm set.

Here is the text of an email exchange I had with AOPA:

------------snip--------------------------------------
GE: Can you explain why your guide says that a "Flight test for any
certificate or rating" counts as a Flight Review when 61.56(d) clearly
says that only flight tests for PILOT certificates or ratings count?
(The Flight Instructor certificate is not a PILOT certificate.)

Thank you.


AOPA: Thank you for writing AOPA. Yes, you are correct a flight test
for a CFI is only counted as a flight review if you discuss it with
the examiner beforehand and he/she signs you off for one after the
test. If you need anything else please do not hesitate to email me
personally. Have a great day.

GE: Will AOPA correct its web page on the Flight Review with regards
to this?

AOPA: I already contacted the appropriate people. Thank you for your
email.

------------snip--------------------------------------