what would you do?

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
Ok... suppose YOU were the FAA... and the incident occured exactly the way
it
was portrayed in the original post, and it was reported to the FAA (you).

What would you (were you the FAA) do?

Generally speaking, "keep an eye on her". I have no idea what the FAA
actually would do, or how they "keep an eye on" someone.

I wouldn't expect them to actually write a violation on the basis on that
single report, but they might contact the pilot to talk to her. Of course,
if she incriminates herself in the process, that's a different matter.
Knowing the FAA, if the pilot actually incriminated herself while talking to
the FAA, I'd expect them to throw whatever book at her they have.

If this were the fiftieth report (for example) of bad behavior on her part
that the FSDO received, I'd expect them to start *some* sort of proceedings,
if only a review (what do they call it? 409? I don't remember).

Pete

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
First of all, what would you report her for? I am having difficulty
finding
an actual FAR violation here, though it appears that everyone, including
yourself, was flying some sort of non-standard pattern.

Flying a left pattern for a runway designated as right-traffic violates
91.126b or 91.127a.

--Gary

"zatatime" wrote in message
...

I really am amazed at how quickly this group seems to hang people and
almost unanimously declare that someone should be referred to the
authorities when all they really have to go by is one persons opinion.

According to the original post, there were quite a few witnesses.

It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that they
are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be.

Not that boneheaded of mistakes.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
First of all, what would you report her for? I am having difficulty
finding
an actual FAR violation here, though it appears that everyone, including
yourself, was flying some sort of non-standard pattern. Being rude is not
a
crime (otherwise most of us here would have been locked up long ago).

"Rude" is all it was?

Secondly, if your radio conversation was broadcast over the loudspeakers
for
1000 people to hear, the FAA already heard it.

Oh?

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:53:15 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:

According to the original post, there were quite a few witnesses.

None of whom frequent this group, which still leaves us making a
determination (suggestion) based one one person's point of view.

It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that they
are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be.

Not that boneheaded of mistakes.

Are you sure, No One who has Ever posted here has not made One
significant error? Just seems too absolute a statement to me.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:45:34 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .
It shouldn't matter Who is being reported. How do you know this
person has done something worth reporting? Because of a post on the
internet?

No one is proposing reporting a pilot solely on the basis of what they've
read on this newsgroup. The only person to whom it's being suggested that
the pilot be reported is the person who actually observed the actions.

If that person cannot make a final determination as to whether to report the
person, who can? All we are saying is that if the events transpired as
described, that's a reportable offense. Nothing more, nothing less.
And that person is using input from this group as a barometer for his
actions. When strong opinions are shared from people he may trust
those opinions weigh more heavily into the equation than random
comments. If the people making those opinions were not there to
witness it they really don't know what transpired.


It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that they
are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be.

I have no idea where you got that impression. Perhaps you could quote some
posts that led you to it. It sure seems like you pulled that conclusion out
of your ass, given the utter lack of supporting statements within this
thread to justify it.

From time to time we see a "What Would You Do" type of post.
Generally the crowd chants Take Action with the Feds. This opinion
did not come out of my ass at all, but is based on what I have seen
here over time. I don't live for usenet (although I use it regularly)
so I'm not going to research history for the sake of sharing an
opinion. It wouldn't be time well spent.

Don't take it so personally.

z

True but calling the FSDO is just beginning a process of reviewing whether
the pilot in question is qualified to be flying or needs more training.
Based on the information presented, I think a review is warranted. Just my
humble opinion.

Mike
MU-2

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:45:34 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .
It shouldn't matter Who is being reported. How do you know this
person has done something worth reporting? Because of a post on the
internet?

No one is proposing reporting a pilot solely on the basis of what they've
read on this newsgroup. The only person to whom it's being suggested that
the pilot be reported is the person who actually observed the actions.

If that person cannot make a final determination as to whether to report
the
person, who can? All we are saying is that if the events transpired as
described, that's a reportable offense. Nothing more, nothing less.
And that person is using input from this group as a barometer for his
actions. When strong opinions are shared from people he may trust
those opinions weigh more heavily into the equation than random
comments. If the people making those opinions were not there to
witness it they really don't know what transpired.


It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that they
are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be.

I have no idea where you got that impression. Perhaps you could quote
some
posts that led you to it. It sure seems like you pulled that conclusion
out
of your ass, given the utter lack of supporting statements within this
thread to justify it.

From time to time we see a "What Would You Do" type of post.
Generally the crowd chants Take Action with the Feds. This opinion
did not come out of my ass at all, but is based on what I have seen
here over time. I don't live for usenet (although I use it regularly)
so I'm not going to research history for the sake of sharing an
opinion. It wouldn't be time well spent.

Don't take it so personally.

z

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
And that person is using input from this group as a barometer for his
actions.

And yet, we are not the ones making the decision. Whatever happened to
personal responsibility? Oh, that's right...there's no such thing anymore.

[...] If the people making those opinions were not there to
witness it they really don't know what transpired.

If the people making those opinions WERE there, they could take action
themselves, rather than providing insight to someone else who WAS there. By
your logic, no one should ever seek counsel from someone else. That's a
pretty dumb conclusion, IMHO.

From time to time we see a "What Would You Do" type of post.
Generally the crowd chants Take Action with the Feds.

Yes, it does, now and then. So?

This opinion
did not come out of my ass at all, but is based on what I have seen
here over time.

How do you conclude from recommendations that dangerous behavior be reported
to the FAA, that "no one here has ever made a mistake"? The two are
completely unrelated.

Your statement that "no one here has ever made a mistake" did indeed come
right out of your ass. It's a completely unjustified conclusion. No one
here ever claimed that they never made a mistake (well, perhaps excepting
one particular trollish controller), nor do comments suggesting a dangerous
pilot be reported imply any such thing.

Pete

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:53:15 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:

According to the original post, there were quite a few witnesses.

None of whom frequent this group, which still leaves us making a
determination (suggestion) based one one person's point of view.

I didn't know we were expected to make a determination, only a WAG as to
what he should do: report, or not report. I expect $12 a day if I gotta do
Jury Duty.

It's almost as if no one here has ever made a mistake, and that they
are as close to perfect pilots as anyone can be.

Not that boneheaded of mistakes.

Are you sure, No One who has Ever posted here has not made One
significant error? Just seems too absolute a statement to me.

We're all still alive, aren't we? Mostly?

ASRS Report



Troy


"tony roberts" wrote in message
news:nospam-7E8DDE.22231620062004@shawnews...
I have to make a decision that could have a big impact on a fellow pilot
and I would appreciate knowing what you would do in my situation - Here
are the basic facts:
Today I, along with a pilot passenger (witness) went to a fly-in - lots
of planes arriving in short time frame.
Active runway was 14, lh downwind, circuit height 3000 ft.
We called 5 miles out (procedure) and received a response from another
pilot "Joining 17 in 2 minutes".
I responded, "are you arriving xxx airport - there is no 17"
Response - "sorry I meant 35".
I reply, there is no 35 - the runways are 14 and 32. 14 is active,
downwind is lh, circuit is 3000 ft.
Response - circling over 35 losing altitude.
Me - I am approaching threshold of 32 at 3000ft to join downwind left
14. There is no 35 and you should not be descending over the runway.
Response - I am at 5500 descending for 35.
Me - I repeat this airport is 14 and 32 - circuit height is 3000 ft. We
are about to cross midfield to join downwind left 14.
Response - Sorry I meant 32 - I am on downwind left 32.
(32 if it was active - is downwind right)
Me - You are on head on collision course with me- I am in immediate
emergency descent and crossing to midfield (no choice - mountains in
other direction)
Response - Well - I'm trying to land here! Huh?
Me - XXX Radio - are you guys listening to this? I could really use your
help here right now (I admit - I got VERY rattled)
XXX Radio - Errr aircraft xxx active is downwind left 14.
So I land.
And then this plane comes in and bounces nose wheel to mains - 4 or 5
times.
So I'm out of the plane and I meet a friend who arrived before me. And
that was when I found out that our radio calls had been broadcast via
loudspeakers to over 1000 spectators.
And my friend said, "I am really embarrassed about this, because I have
been trying to help this pilot (who has a PPL and over 100 hours) but
she is totally clueless.
So the pilot now taxis next to my friends aircraft , taxis into the
grass/soft dirt - gets stuck trying to turn, applys FULL power and
sprays the side of my friends aircraft with dirt & stones - and keeps
doing it - because she is so clueless she doesn't know what she is doing.
Moving forward - I watched her depart.
Radio at taxiway - Aircraft calling on final - which airport are you
landing at - I kid you not.
Aircraft on final - 14 XXX
He lands.
Another aircraft calls final 14 xxx
Response - Aircraft on final - which airport are you landing at?
Aircraft on final - 14 XXX
And yet another aircraft calls final.
"Listen - I'm waiting to take off here"
He lands.
She has about 8 aircraft behind her.
Now she does her runup.
Her call - XXX taking off. (No runway - just taking off).
Of the approx 500 aircraft that took off here today, this was the ONLY
one that didn't backtrack.
With nosewheel up way to soon for density altitude she took off, stall
horn wailing as she skimmed the trees and departed for home.
Would you report her - or would you forget it?
I'm having a hard time thinking of reporting her,
I'll have a harder time if I do nothing and she crashes next week.
What would you do?
Thanks
Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE