Prop to High RPM on downwind

Mitty wrote:

Actually, no. But whatever the level to others, it is probably
proportional to the level I get, no? So I can still make the judgement
call.

No.

We do such experiments at club meetings: E.g. the club pilots stay on
the ground while some pilot flyes a couple of circuits with a variety of
settings (with and without power reduction after take off, with and
without high rpm on downwind etc.). Such things are always very
educative and make a good starter for discussions.

Stefan

I must be stupid or missing something. Does everybody in this ng come into
the
pattern at cruise airspeed? I was taught, and teach, that you come into
the
pattern about 10 knots above your desired airspeed on final. If you do
that,
your power is already back for level flight to where the prop is in the
stops
anyway.

This is the standard procedure for entering a pattern.

Over the years, though, I've found that my pattern entry procedure varies
with conditions. If I'm alone in the pattern (as we often are, on a
Wednesday afternoon -- a day we typically fly), I'll zip around the pattern
at whatever speed works to get me down soonest.

This usually means a pattern entry speed of around 100 knots (or more), with
a gradual diminishing of speed down to 80 when we turn base, and another
gradual diminishing to 70 on final.

Earlier in my flying "career" I would not have been able to manage such a
thing, and religiously stuck to the 100% stabilized approach (which, at the
time, meant 80 mph from downwind all the way down). I had this drummed out
of me when I started flying into controlled airspace more often, where an 80
mph downwind leg would result in an exasperated controller having to
re-sequence the pattern.

Thus, long story short, yeah, we sometimes come into the pattern at such a
speed that pushing the prop full forward is going to result in a lot more
noise.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Brenor Brophy wrote:

I fly downwind at 90 KIAS, 15" MP nice and level. Its a bit faster than
Jim, but a nice easy number to remember and consistent with everything
else in the pattern for the most part.

In a 182 with the gear down? I can fly level at 15" with the gear up, but
with the gear down it'll need more power in my experience (and
recollection).

- Andrew

In article ,
john smith wrote:
Unless you have been assigned a lower altitude by ATC, try setting up
your pattern so you arrive 1500 feet above field elevation when abeam
the approach end of the runway.

1500AGL?? I've done 180 degree desending turns to land and the optimum
altitude seems to be about 800AGL. If you start 1/2 mile away from the
runway (laterally, abeam the threshold) you're going to follow an arc
that's about 3/4 of a mile long. At around 70mph that will take only
about 40 seconds, and from 1500' that would require a 2000FPM average
descent.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

40 degrees flaps and power to idle?

Ben Jackson wrote:
In article ,
john smith wrote:

Unless you have been assigned a lower altitude by ATC, try setting up
your pattern so you arrive 1500 feet above field elevation when abeam
the approach end of the runway.


1500AGL?? I've done 180 degree desending turns to land and the optimum
altitude seems to be about 800AGL. If you start 1/2 mile away from the
runway (laterally, abeam the threshold) you're going to follow an arc
that's about 3/4 of a mile long. At around 70mph that will take only
about 40 seconds, and from 1500' that would require a 2000FPM average
descent.

I have flown two airplanes (Osprey II and an RV-6 with constant speed
prop) that would not make the runway from a 180 degree approach from a
downwind less than a 1/4-mile from the runway without carrying power.

Ben Jackson wrote:
In article ,
john smith wrote:

Unless you have been assigned a lower altitude by ATC, try setting up
your pattern so you arrive 1500 feet above field elevation when abeam
the approach end of the runway.


1500AGL?? I've done 180 degree desending turns to land and the optimum
altitude seems to be about 800AGL. If you start 1/2 mile away from the
runway (laterally, abeam the threshold) you're going to follow an arc
that's about 3/4 of a mile long. At around 70mph that will take only
about 40 seconds, and from 1500' that would require a 2000FPM average
descent.

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
On 21 Nov 2004 20:04:44 -0600, Andrew Sarangan
wrote:

Do you do a final gear check on final?
Yes
If so, then how much extra work
is it to push the prop to forward on final?
For my philosophy the final check, should be just that - only a check,
no work unless an error has occurred. Subtle I'm sure, but the less
"work" on short final the better IMO.

This will only become an
issue if you are performing a go-around *and* you forget to push the
prop forward. Even if you forget the prop on final, I don't see how you
can forget it again on a go-around. The go-around procedure calls for
everything forward, and you will catch it if the prop is out.
If in your mind you think you pushed it forward you'll probably
realize it isn't only after the throttle has been pushed full forward.
(I know not an absolute, but more likely than not for an average
person). If it does happen you'll be way "over square" and
potentially do alot of engine damage. Not withstanding the damage
potential, you could get alarmed by the condition, fixate on
rectifying it, and relax the pitch control. In heavier airplanes you
could get enough of a pitch up that it's hard for a person to recover.
I'm not being sexist, but I had this happen to a woman I was flying
with, lets just say it was a good learning experience for her. g
This was in a 172RG so heavy is a relative term.


Almost every turbocharged airplane engine ever built operates "over square"
on every takeoff and many operate "way over square". "Square" and
"oversquare" are myths that need to be buried alongside "the step". The
whole notion of "square" is simply an artifact of the units we choose for
MP. If we used inches of water or psi or anything besides the height of a
colum of a particular metal which conviently happens to be a liquid are room
temperature, the whole notion of "square" would never have come about. I'll
step down from my soapbox now.

Mike
MU-2
Helio Courier.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:08:45 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

Almost every turbocharged airplane engine ever built operates "over square"


We're not talking turbocharges airplanes for this one, however I do
understand the over square concept in takeoff, and other operations.
Aside from that, its a relationship that has been established. When
flying at 2200 RPM or so and going full power you run a greater risk
of breaking something than at full pitch (high RPM). This is all I
was trying to say.

z

Then I hope you won't take my offer of a free biennial next July. I expect a
person to fly the same pattern from Anchorage to Dallas, no matter whether they
are the only person in the pattern or #25 to land.

Certainly we can make allowances for situations, but if you are saying that you
make different patterns when you are alone in the pattern, I'd suggest another
instructor. I certainly won't sign you off.

Jim




"Jay Honeck"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
-This is the standard procedure for entering a pattern.
-
-Over the years, though, I've found that my pattern entry procedure varies
-with conditions. If I'm alone in the pattern (as we often are, on a
-Wednesday afternoon -- a day we typically fly), I'll zip around the pattern
-at whatever speed works to get me down soonest.



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

I'll sign you off, Jay. If it's safe and legal, no instructor has any
business telling you to "do it his way" or fail. Your only limitation
on speed is either 200 KIAS or 250KIAS, depending on the airspace you
are in. Sheesh!!


On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:52:06 -0800, Jim Weir wrote:

Then I hope you won't take my offer of a free biennial next July. I expect a
person to fly the same pattern from Anchorage to Dallas, no matter whether they
are the only person in the pattern or #25 to land.

Certainly we can make allowances for situations, but if you are saying that you
make different patterns when you are alone in the pattern, I'd suggest another
instructor. I certainly won't sign you off.

Jim




"Jay Honeck"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
-This is the standard procedure for entering a pattern.
-
-Over the years, though, I've found that my pattern entry procedure varies
-with conditions. If I'm alone in the pattern (as we often are, on a
-Wednesday afternoon -- a day we typically fly), I'll zip around the pattern
-at whatever speed works to get me down soonest.



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com