Radio 'altercation' with ATC

Dave S wrote:
Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?

Who says he DOES?

91.123(b) does. If he's ATC, and he issues an instruction, this
regulation obliges you to comply. There's no indication here (or
anywhere that I'm aware of) that you have to be in "his airspace" in
order for his instruction to be authoritative.

Newps wrote:
Brien K. Meehan wrote:
Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?

Our rule book.

I appreciate the hint, but could you be more specific?
Is this a rule book which places regulatory demands on pilots?

On 11 Dec 2004 22:57:18 -0800, "Brien K. Meehan"
wrote in
.com::

Newps wrote:
Brien K. Meehan wrote:
Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?

Our rule book.

I appreciate the hint, but could you be more specific?
Is this a rule book which places regulatory demands on pilots?

He's probably referring to FAA Order 7110.65:
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/ . However, he'll have to provide the
specifics.

Brien K. Meehan wrote:

Newps wrote:

Brien K. Meehan wrote:

Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?


Our rule book.


I appreciate the hint, but could you be more specific?
Is this a rule book which places regulatory demands on pilots?

Nope, just like yours places no regulatory demands on me.

I try to remember this when flying. Pilots are people and have good days
and bad days. I've done stupid things. I've let my voice tone indicate
that I am annoyed. Fortunately I haven't ever let myself have a radio
altercation.

ATC are people too. They have good days and bad days. Generally, I swallow
the bad for all of the good that they do for me. Heck, you get to know the
voices and something of the people. When I was a new pilot coming home to
CRQ, one of the controllers there, Caroline, was like my hearing my mothers
voice when I made an initial call. It sure feels good to be home!

Ego has no place in the cockpit and that is the only thing that will start
an arguement in the air. Stay calm. "Unable" and "Wilco" are powerful
words. Do your best Chuck Yeagar and get on the ground. If you were in
danger, make a phone call. If you are just annoyed, chalk it up to somebody
elses bad day and try not to make it worse.

Regarding this specific case. I wasn't there but, my first preference would
have been S-turns. How can you follow a Cherokee when it is out of site
during 360s? I'd always check in for a 360, but that is just my own
preference

Slip'er.

Just go to chapter 7 of the .65 and you can see the rules for the
various airspaces.

Larry Dighera wrote:

On 11 Dec 2004 22:57:18 -0800, "Brien K. Meehan"
wrote in
.com::


Newps wrote:

Brien K. Meehan wrote:

Who says he has no authority in class E or G airspace?

Our rule book.

I appreciate the hint, but could you be more specific?
Is this a rule book which places regulatory demands on pilots?


He's probably referring to FAA Order 7110.65:
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/ . However, he'll have to provide the
specifics.

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 05:25:22 GMT, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...

I had something similar happen to me, but I think it was a controller
misunderstanding of my situation or he was having a bad day.

I reside under charlie airspace. I took off, turn out toward the NE
practice area. I listened, approach was jockeying several planes, so I
maintained 500 feet below the floor of charlie airspace. I called in
Approach 43L. Approach didn't acknowledge and about 1 minute later, I
called in again Approach, Sundowner 12345L, one thousand 400 feet 2 miles
north of Madison, headed to the NE practice area. Approach said to me,
43L, you are suppose to call before you leave the ground on 123.90.
Squawk
0104. HUH??????? I am doing VFR to the practice area! Never had to call
before wheels up before!


You don't have to call before departure, just before entering Class C
airspace.

Hey Steven,

Yeah, I knew that, thus my reason for staying 500 feet below the floor of
Charlie airspace (see above).

I really think the controller may have had me mixed up with an IFR
departure or was simply having a real bad day.

Allen

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
k.net...

wrote in message
ps.com...

I am not a CFI or even commercial rated (yet). I have had similar
situations where I fly. I've had approach chew me out because my IFR
plan had just expired (hey, who would have expected having to sit for
30 minutes waiting for 10 aircraft to land at a private field). Notice,
not a clearance, but flight plan. We were going to activate in the air
since it was VFR conditions. All we would have needed to do was contact
FSS and re-enter it. The CFII beside me had been a controller and told
me that the controller was out of line.


A proposed flight plan generally times out two hours after the proposed
departure time. Why didn't your ex-controller CFII prompt you to update
the
time before that?


Maybe there's a reason he's an EX controller.... :-)

Chip, ZTL

After communicating with the controller you should follow their
instructions and advise them of any deviation from those
instructions.

And the instructions were, as BTIZ was the first to point out, "Maintain
visual separation". He was following that instruction. Right?

-Frank

Frankster wrote:

After communicating with the controller you should follow their
instructions and advise them of any deviation from those
instructions.


And the instructions were, as BTIZ was the first to point out, "Maintain
visual separation". He was following that instruction. Right?

That was one of the instructions and a completely useless one at that.
Like telling you to get out of bed in the morning.