Iced up Cirrus crashes

The more of these Cirrus accidents I read about, the more I'm convinced
that Cirrus has a serious marketing/training problem:

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...s/10853388.htm

I'm not convinced there is anything wrong with the aircraft per se.
What seems to be happening is that the aircraft is so capable and
comfortable that it is giving some pilots excess confidence, both in
themselves and the airplane. Cirrus Design's advertising fosters this
confidence.

Cirrus Design has made some moves to improve training of new owners, but
their marketing is still touting the product as providing quantum
improvements in safety, which it manifestly does not.

To be fair, one must consider that this snazzy new design may be
attracting a lot of new flyers. Is Cirrus is selling a disproportionate
number of airplanes to inexperienced pilots?
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Dan Luke wrote:

The more of these Cirrus accidents I read about, the more I'm convinced
that Cirrus has a serious marketing/training problem:

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...s/10853388.htm

Before guessing and posting, you should read the whole article and not
only the headline.

Excerpt from the link you posted:

McDonald believes the pilot exercised poor judgment, taking off at night
in poor weather over mountainous terrain.

"I'm very careful about trying to prejudge these kinds of things, but
with the weather data that was out there, and the forecast for icing
conditions, there's no way I can imagine charging into that," he said.


Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Dan Luke wrote:

The more of these Cirrus accidents I read about, the more I'm convinced
that Cirrus has a serious marketing/training problem:

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...s/10853388.htm

Before guessing and posting, you should read the whole article and not
only the headline.

Excerpt from the link you posted:

McDonald believes the pilot exercised poor judgment, taking off at night
in poor weather over mountainous terrain.

"I'm very careful about trying to prejudge these kinds of things, but
with the weather data that was out there, and the forecast for icing
conditions, there's no way I can imagine charging into that," he said.


Stefan

That is exactly what Dan said...excess pilot confidence which leads to poor
judgment which leads to a dead pilot.

"Stefan" wrote:
Before guessing and posting, you should read...

That's some great advice you're handing out there, Stefan.

Dave Stadt wrote:

That is exactly what Dan said...excess pilot confidence which leads to poor
judgment which leads to a dead pilot.

That was my take on Dan's post, too.

--
Peter













----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Dave Stadt wrote:

That is exactly what Dan said...excess pilot confidence which leads to poor
judgment which leads to a dead pilot.

I've understood Dan's post as Cirrus specific, something to the lines
that the SR22 is difficult to fly and requires more training. Flying
into icing conditions at night is nothing Cirrus specific. But I may be
wrong.

Stefan

Stefan wrote:
I've understood Dan's post as Cirrus specific, something to the lines
that the SR22 is difficult to fly and requires more training.

I've heard that opinion stated by several people including a Cirrus
salesman...though surely some would disagree.

Flying into icing conditions at night is nothing Cirrus specific.

True.

But I may be wrong.

Can't both statements be accurate?

Is a laminar flow wing more susceptible to loss of lift due to icing then a
standard wing? And, along the same lines, is there any difference between
how composites react to icing versus aluminum?

Michael

Richard Collins wrote about this type of things 10 years ago. He looked
at why us Mooney owners pay more in insurance than Arrow pilots and why
Mooneys have more wx accidents. His opinion was that the Mooney was
made to be a traveling machine, just like the Cirrus. When you have a
fast traveling machine you go places. When you go places you encounter
more weather. 172's don't encouter as many wx related accidents because
if your mission is to cross the Sierras 10 times per year, you don't
buy a 172.
Perhaps the Cirrus appeals to less experienced pilots as well.
Personally, I don't see the chute as a selling point. Most accidents
happen close to the ground where the chute doesn't help and most wx
accidents happen after the plane has over stressed and come apart,
again something the chute doesn't really address (obviously since you
can't even use the chute when you're in an uncontrolled high speed
decent typical of TS or ice encounters).However, that's just my
opinion. I'm sure newly minted pilots see it as more of a benefit and
perhaps there, they attrack more inexperienced pilots.

-Robert CFI and Mooney driver

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Dave Stadt wrote:

That is exactly what Dan said...excess pilot confidence which leads to
poor
judgment which leads to a dead pilot.

I've understood Dan's post as Cirrus specific, something to the lines
that the SR22 is difficult to fly and requires more training. Flying
into icing conditions at night is nothing Cirrus specific. But I may be
wrong.

Think of it as analogous to the people that buy a 4WD / SUV then go racing
down an icy road and end up in a ditch.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO