Hmmmmm. FS98 'mystery'

Stop it! YOU elected to click on, yes? ;-)
Think of it as a flight .... of sorts .... but then, you never quite
know what the theme is...


OK...straight sim stuff this time around....how about some takers on
this current mystery: Naturally, '04 [AKA FS9] is doing its thing and
FS2K2 likewise but I rarely dump the older sims because there are
certain planes [sim community rendered...naturally!] I still like to fly
on the older sim engines...so to speak. Case(s) in point : For FS98, the
Chaffin-Rambow-Visser masterpiece [*not to mention the then future
planes/panels that followed for the FS series !] for that time frame
[*in my view anyway and so stated] -- the DC-3 R4D and yet another
masterpiece for FS2K, Paul Golding's MD80 [This all in one
DL...panel/plane/sounds is dazzling and I'll wager various of the long
time simmers already have it...if not....pgmd80.FS2K.pnl.v2a.zip at
Flightsim.com, Avsim, etc. Well worth the DL! Caution: Paul is a purist!
Forget the Control E thing. Manual engine start ONLY...by the
numbers...or you don't fly! Dunno! That's Paul for you!

Anyway, I'm loading up good ol' FS98 on the now SATA drive [with a BIG
tip o' the wing to Pete D. for the great info!] and of course the patch
for same but when the sim appears the panel is about a third of the size
it should be! Why? Dunno! This happens in any screen resolution or sim
mode view [docked or full screen mode] and I tried 2 re-installs of the
sim...same deal! Other sims are fine but '98 won't cooperate! The panel
[of any plane including stock stuff] appears but it's a third of the
normal size yet the runway [either mode] remains normal! This has me
stymied! Possible clue-- even when taken out completely and a
re-installation attempted it wants to install itself in
'Programs/Microsoft Games/FS2000 !!!???

Anyone for a cure or Dx as to what's happening with the sudden shrunken
plane panels?

Doc Tony


[from afar....]

Greasy: "Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!"

Al "D". : [to Greasy...extends fist, vertical, pinky down...] "Hey
G-man, see that?"

Greasy: [goes for it...instinct some would muse...] 'RAP!' ... to the
fist...self-inflicted head bonk follows forthwith....

;-)

Switching...so, any hunches on the FS98 sort-of end of flick
'Beatlejuice' [remember the head thing? Ahhhh, forget it....] mystery?


What's that? Ohhhh, what harm! I write satire, OK?

[but then...]

Greasy: [nasty like...] "Yeah sure...and I'm the friggin' King of the
Siam!"

BoB [sic]: "Not quite Mr. G ...there is no Siam...if you wish to get
geographically technical about it!"

Greasy: "Sez you! This Doc Tony guy is ...ehhh....he's makin' it up!
Anyone can make grand claims [*as Greasy does !] ....I want proof!"

Sure! Look here and observe the decent company I'm in. Satisfied?
Click 'Authors' ... Go to the 'L' .... Enjoy!

http://www.mencken.org/files/text/me..._1962_1999.htm

[post the above 'flight' ..as it were...]

Greasy: "Yo, S-bird [!!!], like what do you know about .... [refers to
his notes...] ...ehhh....'Seppuku', man?"

S-bird: "Sepp-u-WHO?"

;-)

And the finale! As Bro' Al D. pulls a line from one of his old still
retained 331/3 RPM vinyl's fer cryin' out loud! To wit, 'JC, Superstar'
and bellows to the RAS assembled a la you-know-who in that Webber [UK]
musical way back when about yours truly, "I DON'T KNOW HIM!"


Note to Dean B. ! [Lurks RAS when time permits!] Hey, the CD idea for CP
mag was a great move but, alas, I see that the 'show' by Doc and friend
is [unfortunately] going by the boards for, I suppose, want of requisite
sheckles...but I wanted to see YOU at interview! Although I thought
you-know-who [AKA the 'father of CP', initials "RF" ] did a good
job...the PCAv LA and NY scenery plug notwithstanding! ;-)

[and more!]

John Ward: "That has to be Doc referring to Bob Ferraro!"

Greasy: "He said the initials were 'RF', not 'BF', Mr. Ward! Wake up!"

John: GROAN "Ohhhh ferrrr..... ."

Don P. : "John...hey....with the G-man, not to fret.....I mean, hey,
consider the source!"

Pete D. "Or 'sauce' ..... !"

;-)

Hi Doc Tony,

Why would it want to be installing itself in a FS2000 directory? One of
life's little tantalising mysteries, perhaps?

Anyway, Katy Pluta or Derek Wildstar might be able to step in here -
they're both brilliant Ms MVPs, and incredibly helpful, and have tons of
"nouse".

If Katy helps you out, just make sure you have your tie straightened and
hair neatly combed, and if Derek does, ask him if he's got a spare Flightsim
chair he'd be willing to send you, for the right price. :-)

I'm not forgetting Jupiter Jones, but Katy and Derek seem to monitor
these groups the most.

Of course, that's not to mention all the others here on these n/gs, who
always come up with a solution eventually to any reasonable question! e.g.
Peter Duniho nailing your SATA problem.

BTW, when's SATA 2 expected to hit the bricks (with Mobos to match, of
course). Can't be far away now?

What are some of the other old "classics" you like to fly, that don't
work on later versions of the Sim', or haven't been updated yet? I had a
great find recently when I found a Martin-Baker M.B.5 WWII fighter, for
CFS2, that actually works, with a bit of tweaking, in FS9.

Regards,
John

Regards,
John
"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...
Stop it! YOU elected to click on, yes? ;-)
Think of it as a flight .... of sorts .... but then, you never quite
know what the theme is...


OK...straight sim stuff this time around....how about some takers on
this current mystery: Naturally, '04 [AKA FS9] is doing its thing and
FS2K2 likewise but I rarely dump the older sims because there are
certain planes [sim community rendered...naturally!] I still like to fly
on the older sim engines...so to speak. Case(s) in point : For FS98, the
Chaffin-Rambow-Visser masterpiece [*not to mention the then future
planes/panels that followed for the FS series !] for that time frame
[*in my view anyway and so stated] -- the DC-3 R4D and yet another
masterpiece for FS2K, Paul Golding's MD80 [This all in one
DL...panel/plane/sounds is dazzling and I'll wager various of the long
time simmers already have it...if not....pgmd80.FS2K.pnl.v2a.zip at
Flightsim.com, Avsim, etc. Well worth the DL! Caution: Paul is a purist!
Forget the Control E thing. Manual engine start ONLY...by the
numbers...or you don't fly! Dunno! That's Paul for you!

Anyway, I'm loading up good ol' FS98 on the now SATA drive [with a BIG
tip o' the wing to Pete D. for the great info!] and of course the patch
for same but when the sim appears the panel is about a third of the size
it should be! Why? Dunno! This happens in any screen resolution or sim
mode view [docked or full screen mode] and I tried 2 re-installs of the
sim...same deal! Other sims are fine but '98 won't cooperate! The panel
[of any plane including stock stuff] appears but it's a third of the
normal size yet the runway [either mode] remains normal! This has me
stymied! Possible clue-- even when taken out completely and a
re-installation attempted it wants to install itself in
'Programs/Microsoft Games/FS2000 !!!???

Anyone for a cure or Dx as to what's happening with the sudden shrunken
plane panels?

Doc Tony


[from afar....]

Greasy: "Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!"

Al "D". : [to Greasy...extends fist, vertical, pinky down...] "Hey
G-man, see that?"

Greasy: [goes for it...instinct some would muse...] 'RAP!' ... to the
fist...self-inflicted head bonk follows forthwith....

;-)

Switching...so, any hunches on the FS98 sort-of end of flick
'Beatlejuice' [remember the head thing? Ahhhh, forget it....] mystery?


What's that? Ohhhh, what harm! I write satire, OK?

[but then...]

Greasy: [nasty like...] "Yeah sure...and I'm the friggin' King of the
Siam!"

BoB [sic]: "Not quite Mr. G ...there is no Siam...if you wish to get
geographically technical about it!"

Greasy: "Sez you! This Doc Tony guy is ...ehhh....he's makin' it up!
Anyone can make grand claims [*as Greasy does !] ....I want proof!"

Sure! Look here and observe the decent company I'm in. Satisfied?
Click 'Authors' ... Go to the 'L' .... Enjoy!

http://www.mencken.org/files/text/me..._1962_1999.htm

[post the above 'flight' ..as it were...]

Greasy: "Yo, S-bird [!!!], like what do you know about .... [refers to
his notes...] ...ehhh....'Seppuku', man?"

S-bird: "Sepp-u-WHO?"

;-)

And the finale! As Bro' Al D. pulls a line from one of his old still
retained 331/3 RPM vinyl's fer cryin' out loud! To wit, 'JC, Superstar'
and bellows to the RAS assembled a la you-know-who in that Webber [UK]
musical way back when about yours truly, "I DON'T KNOW HIM!"


Note to Dean B. ! [Lurks RAS when time permits!] Hey, the CD idea for CP
mag was a great move but, alas, I see that the 'show' by Doc and friend
is [unfortunately] going by the boards for, I suppose, want of requisite
sheckles...but I wanted to see YOU at interview! Although I thought
you-know-who [AKA the 'father of CP', initials "RF" ] did a good
job...the PCAv LA and NY scenery plug notwithstanding! ;-)

[and more!]

John Ward: "That has to be Doc referring to Bob Ferraro!"

Greasy: "He said the initials were 'RF', not 'BF', Mr. Ward! Wake up!"

John: GROAN "Ohhhh ferrrr..... ."

Don P. : "John...hey....with the G-man, not to fret.....I mean, hey,
consider the source!"

Pete D. "Or 'sauce' ..... !"

;-)

John Ward wrote:
Hi Doc Tony,

Why would it want to be installing itself in a FS2000 directory? One of
life's little tantalising mysteries, perhaps?

Anyway, Katy Pluta or Derek Wildstar might be able to step in here -
they're both brilliant Ms MVPs, and incredibly helpful, and have tons of
"nouse".

If Katy helps you out, just make sure you have your tie straightened and
hair neatly combed, and if Derek does, ask him if he's got a spare Flightsim
chair he'd be willing to send you, for the right price. :-)

I'm not forgetting Jupiter Jones, but Katy and Derek seem to monitor
these groups the most.

Of course, that's not to mention all the others here on these n/gs, who
always come up with a solution eventually to any reasonable question! e.g.
Peter Duniho nailing your SATA problem.

BTW, when's SATA 2 expected to hit the bricks (with Mobos to match, of
course). Can't be far away now?

What are some of the other old "classics" you like to fly, that don't
work on later versions of the Sim', or haven't been updated yet? I had a
great find recently when I found a Martin-Baker M.B.5 WWII fighter, for
CFS2, that actually works, with a bit of tweaking, in FS9.

Regards,
John

Regards,
John
"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...

Stop it! YOU elected to click on, yes? ;-)
Think of it as a flight .... of sorts .... but then, you never quite
know what the theme is...


OK...straight sim stuff this time around....how about some takers on
this current mystery: Naturally, '04 [AKA FS9] is doing its thing and
FS2K2 likewise but I rarely dump the older sims because there are
certain planes [sim community rendered...naturally!] I still like to fly
on the older sim engines...so to speak. Case(s) in point : For FS98, the
Chaffin-Rambow-Visser masterpiece [*not to mention the then future
planes/panels that followed for the FS series !] for that time frame
[*in my view anyway and so stated] -- the DC-3 R4D and yet another
masterpiece for FS2K, Paul Golding's MD80 [This all in one
DL...panel/plane/sounds is dazzling and I'll wager various of the long
time simmers already have it...if not....pgmd80.FS2K.pnl.v2a.zip at
Flightsim.com, Avsim, etc. Well worth the DL! Caution: Paul is a purist!
Forget the Control E thing. Manual engine start ONLY...by the
numbers...or you don't fly! Dunno! That's Paul for you!

Anyway, I'm loading up good ol' FS98 on the now SATA drive [with a BIG
tip o' the wing to Pete D. for the great info!] and of course the patch
for same but when the sim appears the panel is about a third of the size
it should be! Why? Dunno! This happens in any screen resolution or sim
mode view [docked or full screen mode] and I tried 2 re-installs of the
sim...same deal! Other sims are fine but '98 won't cooperate! The panel
[of any plane including stock stuff] appears but it's a third of the
normal size yet the runway [either mode] remains normal! This has me
stymied! Possible clue-- even when taken out completely and a
re-installation attempted it wants to install itself in
'Programs/Microsoft Games/FS2000 !!!???

Anyone for a cure or Dx as to what's happening with the sudden shrunken
plane panels?

Doc Tony


[from afar....]

Greasy: "Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!"

Al "D". : [to Greasy...extends fist, vertical, pinky down...] "Hey
G-man, see that?"

Greasy: [goes for it...instinct some would muse...] 'RAP!' ... to the
fist...self-inflicted head bonk follows forthwith....

;-)

Switching...so, any hunches on the FS98 sort-of end of flick
'Beatlejuice' [remember the head thing? Ahhhh, forget it....] mystery?


What's that? Ohhhh, what harm! I write satire, OK?

[but then...]

Greasy: [nasty like...] "Yeah sure...and I'm the friggin' King of the
Siam!"

BoB [sic]: "Not quite Mr. G ...there is no Siam...if you wish to get
geographically technical about it!"

Greasy: "Sez you! This Doc Tony guy is ...ehhh....he's makin' it up!
Anyone can make grand claims [*as Greasy does !] ....I want proof!"

Sure! Look here and observe the decent company I'm in. Satisfied?
Click 'Authors' ... Go to the 'L' .... Enjoy!

http://www.mencken.org/files/text/me..._1962_1999.htm

[post the above 'flight' ..as it were...]

Greasy: "Yo, S-bird [!!!], like what do you know about .... [refers to
his notes...] ...ehhh....'Seppuku', man?"

S-bird: "Sepp-u-WHO?"

;-)

And the finale! As Bro' Al D. pulls a line from one of his old still
retained 331/3 RPM vinyl's fer cryin' out loud! To wit, 'JC, Superstar'
and bellows to the RAS assembled a la you-know-who in that Webber [UK]
musical way back when about yours truly, "I DON'T KNOW HIM!"


Note to Dean B. ! [Lurks RAS when time permits!] Hey, the CD idea for CP
mag was a great move but, alas, I see that the 'show' by Doc and friend
is [unfortunately] going by the boards for, I suppose, want of requisite
sheckles...but I wanted to see YOU at interview! Although I thought
you-know-who [AKA the 'father of CP', initials "RF" ] did a good
job...the PCAv LA and NY scenery plug notwithstanding! ;-)

[and more!]

John Ward: "That has to be Doc referring to Bob Ferraro!"

Greasy: "He said the initials were 'RF', not 'BF', Mr. Ward! Wake up!"

John: GROAN "Ohhhh ferrrr..... ."

Don P. : "John...hey....with the G-man, not to fret.....I mean, hey,
consider the source!"

Pete D. "Or 'sauce' ..... !"

;-)

Hmmmm...let me try that one again...the SATA drive went bananas for a
second and out it went, as my old Big Apple neighbor Sid W. would be
wont to quip, 'Bupkis!"

So..another whirl....

John Ward wrote:
Hi Doc Tony,

Why would it want to be installing itself in a FS2000 directory? One of
life's little tantalising mysteries, perhaps?

Anyway, Katy Pluta or Derek Wildstar might be able to step in here -
they're both brilliant Ms MVPs, and incredibly helpful, and have tons of
"nouse".

If Katy helps you out, just make sure you have your tie straightened and
hair neatly combed, and if Derek does, ask him if he's got a spare Flightsim
chair he'd be willing to send you, for the right price. :-)

I'm not forgetting Jupiter Jones, but Katy and Derek seem to monitor
these groups the most.

Of course, that's not to mention all the others here on these n/gs, who
always come up with a solution eventually to any reasonable question! e.g.
Peter Duniho nailing your SATA problem.

BTW, when's SATA 2 expected to hit the bricks (with Mobos to match, of
course). Can't be far away now?


It's amazing to me, John, how far the machines have come in a relatively
short span of time! On the other hand, it's a plus for the economically
prudent and/or patient-at-heart because technology moves soooooo fast
that what may have been economically out of sight perhaps 6 or 8 months
ago [think CPU speeds, memory, etc.] is now drastically reduced as the
new stuff pours in so that virtually everyone can have a shot at
upgrading! The updated CPU I bought for one of my machines was twice the
cost just 8 months ago and so it goes right down the line from HD's to
machine memory to high-end video cards to you-name-it as the technology
moves ahead swiftly or, conversely, those perennial 'wars' between Intel
vs AMD on the CPU front or ATI vs Nvidia on the video card scene so that
as the 'new and improved ' [allegedly] models come to the market, the
so-called 'older' stuff but decent quality and speed becomes
economically doable!

That benefits all of us because, hey, I always get a kick out of Billy's
folks at MS and their sim box announced "minimum system requirements"
for the FS sims...c'mon already...a P II CPU with 64 megs of video RAM
and a machine memory of 128 or 256? For what...some glider that 'looks'
like a Bruce Artwick after-thought? If the machine does not have the
goods, it's going to be, in my view anyway, a very rocky ride so to
speak...and 'day' flying, visually, sans the 'juice' to run the 'sim'
innards becoming a sort of 60-ish psychedelic trip beyond the nose!


What are some of the other old "classics" you like to fly, that don't
work on later versions of the Sim', or haven't been updated yet? I had a
great find recently when I found a Martin-Baker M.B.5 WWII fighter, for
CFS2, that actually works, with a bit of tweaking, in FS9.



DC-3 is my favorite and 3 names come immediately to mind as he
designers" Roy Chaffin/ Bill Rambow/Jan Visser. Hands down! Then too,
Tom Gibson's prop classics. The immortal 'Connie', usw. Ahhhh! When '98
came out, I could not believe what MS put out in FS98 as the 'Lear
jet'...it was an embarrassment! Same sim, FS98, and pop in that
Chaffin/Rambow/Visser R4D [v. 3.5 complete package for '98 w/updated AP
or choice of original AP] and it was/is literally night versus day. The
handling alone of that DC-3 versus the 'stock' planes that came with
FS98 was absolutely amazing! So too, Bill Walch sic] and his Super King
Air 350 Gold and the J-planes for '98. In 2K, absolutely hands down, and
this just one of my own preferences, Paul Golding's stuff! And of course
the C-R-V team updated DC-3's for 2K DC-3's. 2K2...ahhh...I'd have to
put lists out of the community stuff I use. Frankly John, I see the sim
per se as the requisite 'engine' if you will, or 'innards' perhaps says
it better, to run NOT the stock stuff but sim community wares which I
still believe to be, overall, from panels to scenery, 'superior' to
stock FS stuff!

I will say however that FS9 or FS04 has a decent DC-3 and there have
been improvements but, get this, I believe many of these improvements
are based on what has been duly noticed by the commercial entities to
what the sim community 'itself' has and IS producing! I'm glad to see
places like Flightsim.com recognize these contributions with their
designer awards program and the stuff which is sim community produced is
excellent! Not all of it, of course, but there is always someone with
improvements and the thing simply spirals UPWARDS....and it shows! About
90% of my stuff for FUIII is wholly sim community produced although I
was sad to see Looking Glass go by the board because I thought it had
great potential! But economics still remains the name of the game! And
prudently so because it's also reality but what other hobby can offer
such wares, again, very often superior to commercial stuff, and it's
free! And every day the big flight sim websites offer sim community
material which the download numbers often give a hint as to what is
excellent versus what may be so-so.

So too, I'm more on the civvie side of sims although the combat side of
the hobby has many devotees to be sure and I'm not talking shoot-em-up
stuff but sophisticated stuff...again...Falcon 4 as a good example and
various others which require skill to master and not simply one's index
finger on the stick trigger at some analogous 'game' sim turkey shoot a
la the C-64 days ..no-no...today's stuff is sophisticated and I hope it
remains that way! On the civvie side, from SEL's to Triple 7's ET AL,
hey, you've got to know your stuff and many people make it their
business to do just that! And take it quite seriously! Good!

Remember my classic comment from some years back...our good friend Mr.
Dorfman from "The Flight of the Phoenix" classic flick, "Yes..yes...a
model....that's true...but the 'principles' are the same." Indeed!
Likewise sims and their ability as an adjunctive learning tool...a very
sophisticated one at that! Me? I love it! And I see a great future for
flight simulation...and its sim community! That's not rhetoric...but
fact. We have the tools and the talent to do it and we HAVE done it
often to the chagrin of the commercial enterprises I'll add! So they
either get with it ... or the sim community will do it and very often
produce a superior product to boot!

Doc Tony


Regards,
John

Regards,
John
"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...

Stop it! YOU elected to click on, yes? ;-)
Think of it as a flight .... of sorts .... but then, you never quite
know what the theme is...


OK...straight sim stuff this time around....how about some takers on
this current mystery: Naturally, '04 [AKA FS9] is doing its thing and
FS2K2 likewise but I rarely dump the older sims because there are
certain planes [sim community rendered...naturally!] I still like to fly
on the older sim engines...so to speak. Case(s) in point : For FS98, the
Chaffin-Rambow-Visser masterpiece [*not to mention the then future
planes/panels that followed for the FS series !] for that time frame
[*in my view anyway and so stated] -- the DC-3 R4D and yet another
masterpiece for FS2K, Paul Golding's MD80 [This all in one
DL...panel/plane/sounds is dazzling and I'll wager various of the long
time simmers already have it...if not....pgmd80.FS2K.pnl.v2a.zip at
Flightsim.com, Avsim, etc. Well worth the DL! Caution: Paul is a purist!
Forget the Control E thing. Manual engine start ONLY...by the
numbers...or you don't fly! Dunno! That's Paul for you!

Anyway, I'm loading up good ol' FS98 on the now SATA drive [with a BIG
tip o' the wing to Pete D. for the great info!] and of course the patch
for same but when the sim appears the panel is about a third of the size
it should be! Why? Dunno! This happens in any screen resolution or sim
mode view [docked or full screen mode] and I tried 2 re-installs of the
sim...same deal! Other sims are fine but '98 won't cooperate! The panel
[of any plane including stock stuff] appears but it's a third of the
normal size yet the runway [either mode] remains normal! This has me
stymied! Possible clue-- even when taken out completely and a
re-installation attempted it wants to install itself in
'Programs/Microsoft Games/FS2000 !!!???

Anyone for a cure or Dx as to what's happening with the sudden shrunken
plane panels?

Doc Tony


[from afar....]

Greasy: "Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!"

Al "D". : [to Greasy...extends fist, vertical, pinky down...] "Hey
G-man, see that?"

Greasy: [goes for it...instinct some would muse...] 'RAP!' ... to the
fist...self-inflicted head bonk follows forthwith....

;-)

Switching...so, any hunches on the FS98 sort-of end of flick
'Beatlejuice' [remember the head thing? Ahhhh, forget it....] mystery?


What's that? Ohhhh, what harm! I write satire, OK?

[but then...]

Greasy: [nasty like...] "Yeah sure...and I'm the friggin' King of the
Siam!"

BoB [sic]: "Not quite Mr. G ...there is no Siam...if you wish to get
geographically technical about it!"

Greasy: "Sez you! This Doc Tony guy is ...ehhh....he's makin' it up!
Anyone can make grand claims [*as Greasy does !] ....I want proof!"

Sure! Look here and observe the decent company I'm in. Satisfied?
Click 'Authors' ... Go to the 'L' .... Enjoy!

http://www.mencken.org/files/text/me..._1962_1999.htm

[post the above 'flight' ..as it were...]

Greasy: "Yo, S-bird [!!!], like what do you know about .... [refers to
his notes...] ...ehhh....'Seppuku', man?"

S-bird: "Sepp-u-WHO?"

;-)

And the finale! As Bro' Al D. pulls a line from one of his old still
retained 331/3 RPM vinyl's fer cryin' out loud! To wit, 'JC, Superstar'
and bellows to the RAS assembled a la you-know-who in that Webber [UK]
musical way back when about yours truly, "I DON'T KNOW HIM!"


Note to Dean B. ! [Lurks RAS when time permits!] Hey, the CD idea for CP
mag was a great move but, alas, I see that the 'show' by Doc and friend
is [unfortunately] going by the boards for, I suppose, want of requisite
sheckles...but I wanted to see YOU at interview! Although I thought
you-know-who [AKA the 'father of CP', initials "RF" ] did a good
job...the PCAv LA and NY scenery plug notwithstanding! ;-)

[and more!]

John Ward: "That has to be Doc referring to Bob Ferraro!"

Greasy: "He said the initials were 'RF', not 'BF', Mr. Ward! Wake up!"

John: GROAN "Ohhhh ferrrr..... ."

Don P. : "John...hey....with the G-man, not to fret.....I mean, hey,
consider the source!"

Pete D. "Or 'sauce' ..... !"

;-)