Across Nevada and Part Way Back (long)

Now I know why I felt hammered after two micro-brewery pints (red ....? )
the last time I was in Minden back in 1999. I thought Mike H. was some super
dude as he put the stuff away like water.

Hey, here in Switzerland I'm only at 1300 feet above sea level. When in the
Alps I use the D10 setting just to make sure that I my concentration and
reaction times are 100%. Al's right, though. Most people should be able to
do just fine with a hit on the bottle at 12,000. Guess it does not make a
lot of sense for people from the 'city' to show up in Minden for a flight
without breathing some clean air for a day or so before zooming off into the
boondocks. For some it must feel like 30,000 as they release from tow. Wow.

Rod

In article ,
says...

Hey, here in Switzerland I'm only at 1300 feet above sea level. When in the
Alps I use the D10 setting just to make sure that I my concentration and
reaction times are 100%. Al's right, though. Most people should be able to
do just fine with a hit on the bottle at 12,000.

Maybe not, since people flying gliders at Minden are not "most
people", but tend to be older than "most people". On a hot soaring day
at Minden, or elsewhere in the high desert ares, density altitudes can
easily be 8000' or higher. Nasal cannulas are comfortable enough, and
the newer oxygen systems economical enough (especially the EDS
system), that I'd say there is little reason for "most people" to
wait until 12,000' shows on their altimeter, which could easily be a
density altitude of 15,000' or more.

If this seems much too conservative, talk to some of the increasing
numbers of pilots using oximeters in flight. You will likely be
surprised at how many had oxygen saturations much lower than you'd
suspect from their age and fitness. Even better, try to borrow one for
a flight, or at least check your saturation while on the ground
shortly before the flight.

Personally, I turn my EDS on before 10,000' and set it for Night
(surface start). If the cost of oxygen concerns you, get a more
economical system, and/or learn how to fill your oxygen tank yourself,
as many of us do. This reduces the cost of a fill to about $5.

Guess it does not make a
lot of sense for people from the 'city' to show up in Minden for a flight
without breathing some clean air for a day or so before zooming off into the
boondocks. For some it must feel like 30,000 as they release from tow. Wow.

A good suggestion that most will ignore, but the effect can be
mitigated by starting the oxygen at launch, or soon after release.

--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

Yes, I used oxygen.

David Grah

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. ..
Forgive me if I am asking something that is a 'given' in your sport, but I
assume by the altitudes you mentioned in your GREAT account that you carry
oxygen with you?

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com

Hypoxia is a pretty insidious malady and even healthy people may not
recognize a degradation in their judgement and motor skills. I follow
the same rule that was imposed on me as an aircrewman in the Navy...O2
on anytime cabin altitude is 10K+. I agree with others. Oxygen is
cheap, and besides, I'm not even that sharp at sea level...

CC

Eric Greenwell wrote:

On a hot soaring day
at Minden, or elsewhere in the high desert ares, density altitudes can
easily be 8000' or higher.

For breathing, density altitude doesn't matter. It's the pressure
altitude, or more exactly, the partial pressure of the oxygen, that matters.

Nasal cannulas are comfortable enough, and
the newer oxygen systems economical enough (especially the EDS
system), that I'd say there is little reason for "most people" to
wait until 12,000'

Absolutely.

Here in Switzerland, there's no legal requirement to use oxygen for
private pilots. However, there is one for commercial pilots. It roughly
sais: Use oxygen when you're
- above 13'000 ft or
- above 10'000 ft for longer than half an hour.

It's not enough to just stay awake, you must stay alert.

Besides, many pilots report less headache the day after the flight when
they use oxygen above 10'000 ft.

Stefan

Ever since I bought that EDS system, I just switch it on as soon as I know
that I'll stay above 10'000ft (which is quite normal in the Alps). I live at
1'500ft.
Oxygen with the EDS is pretty cheap, and I can see the difference when it
comes to tactical decision making.

When I had a stressy week at work, I even put it on at 8'000ft - who cares.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Stefan" "stefan"@mus. INVALID .ch a écrit dans le message de
...
Eric Greenwell wrote:

On a hot soaring day
at Minden, or elsewhere in the high desert ares, density altitudes can
easily be 8000' or higher.

For breathing, density altitude doesn't matter. It's the pressure
altitude, or more exactly, the partial pressure of the oxygen, that
matters.

Nasal cannulas are comfortable enough, and
the newer oxygen systems economical enough (especially the EDS
system), that I'd say there is little reason for "most people" to
wait until 12,000'

Absolutely.

Here in Switzerland, there's no legal requirement to use oxygen for
private pilots. However, there is one for commercial pilots. It roughly
sais: Use oxygen when you're
- above 13'000 ft or
- above 10'000 ft for longer than half an hour.

It's not enough to just stay awake, you must stay alert.

Besides, many pilots report less headache the day after the flight when
they use oxygen above 10'000 ft.

Stefan

Eric the EDS unit works on pressure Atlitude.
It reaches its calibrated atlitude pressure and dispenses O2 as described in
its O2 "polar".

Density altitude is a function to reference against Reynolds numbers and not
how people breath.

Unless of course your nose has a Reynolds number

Al

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
says...

Hey, here in Switzerland I'm only at 1300 feet above sea level. When in
the
Alps I use the D10 setting just to make sure that I my concentration and
reaction times are 100%. Al's right, though. Most people should be able
to
do just fine with a hit on the bottle at 12,000.

Maybe not, since people flying gliders at Minden are not "most
people", but tend to be older than "most people". On a hot soaring day
at Minden, or elsewhere in the high desert ares, density altitudes can
easily be 8000' or higher. Nasal cannulas are comfortable enough, and
the newer oxygen systems economical enough (especially the EDS
system), that I'd say there is little reason for "most people" to
wait until 12,000' shows on their altimeter, which could easily be a
density altitude of 15,000' or more.

If this seems much too conservative, talk to some of the increasing
numbers of pilots using oximeters in flight. You will likely be
surprised at how many had oxygen saturations much lower than you'd
suspect from their age and fitness. Even better, try to borrow one for
a flight, or at least check your saturation while on the ground
shortly before the flight.

Personally, I turn my EDS on before 10,000' and set it for Night
(surface start). If the cost of oxygen concerns you, get a more
economical system, and/or learn how to fill your oxygen tank yourself,
as many of us do. This reduces the cost of a fill to about $5.

Guess it does not make a
lot of sense for people from the 'city' to show up in Minden for a
flight
without breathing some clean air for a day or so before zooming off into
the
boondocks. For some it must feel like 30,000 as they release from tow.
Wow.

A good suggestion that most will ignore, but the effect can be
mitigated by starting the oxygen at launch, or soon after release.

--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

but did you inhale ;-)

Al

"Marry Daniel or David Grah" wrote in message
...
Yes, I used oxygen.

David Grah

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
. ..
Forgive me if I am asking something that is a 'given' in your sport, but
I
assume by the altitudes you mentioned in your GREAT account that you
carry
oxygen with you?

--
--
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman, Jr.
PP-ASEL

"We who fly do so for the love of flying.
We are alive in the air with this miracle
that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"

- Cecil Day Lewis-

My personal adventures as a student pilot
and after my PPL: www.bayareapilot.com

In article , Stefan "stefan"@mus.
INVALID .ch says...
Eric Greenwell wrote:

On a hot soaring day
at Minden, or elsewhere in the high desert ares, density altitudes can
easily be 8000' or higher.

For breathing, density altitude doesn't matter. It's the pressure
altitude, or more exactly, the partial pressure of the oxygen, that matters.

Thanks for the correction. I was confusing engine operation and lung
operation.
--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)