How safe is the sport of soaring today

With the increase of glider accidents these days, just how safe is
this sport? There is always a element of risk associated with flying
but how does soaring compare with other forms of aviation or
motorsports?

This looks like a troll to me. Lets be careful about what we say.

Here in the USA the media is out to paint general aviation in a bad light. See
the AOPA web site. We should not give them any help.

Robert Mudd

ojunk (Robertmudd1u) wrote in message ...
With the increase of glider accidents these days, just how safe is
this sport? There is always a element of risk associated with flying
but how does soaring compare with other forms of aviation or
motorsports?

This looks like a troll to me. Lets be careful about what we say.

Here in the USA the media is out to paint general aviation in a bad light. See
the AOPA web site. We should not give them any help.

Robert Mudd

Robert, your comments are certainly true regarding the media, but no
troll here. The intent of my original post was to secure an opinion of
other pilots with much more knowledge than myself regarding the
general safety of the sport. As a low time pilot (100 hrs.)I'm just
trying to listen to those out there with all the experience to assist
with my decision to continue in the sport.

Asbjorn Hojmark wrote:
On 14 May 2004 00:25:39 GMT, (JJ Sinclair)
wrote:

Shouldn't we be telling these guys exactly what we think?

Absolutely.

Failing to do so, and later seeing those pilots killed, really
ought to make those instructors reconsider whether they should be
instructing at all.


This sort of people, notoriously dangerous people, are very well
warned by instructors and other fellows that they should stop flying.
They decide themselves that they don't want to hear such advice,
and eventually kill themselves. As long as they are not involved in a
mid air and don't kill other pilots (this is rare), it is their life,
after all. Do you have any consideration for the notion of liberty?
Do you beleive you are obliged to protect people against themselves?


IMO.

-A

--

Michel TALON

Hi Mot --

Could you give us your critique of the Gantenbrink essay? Does it cover
most of the bases for you, or do you have further concerns?

From the standpoint of a low time pilot the essay (and the other
material on the DG/LS Safety site) may not be quite the all-purpose
material I thought it was.

Thanks,

Bob Johnson

Mot wrote:

ojunk (Robertmudd1u) wrote in message ...
With the increase of glider accidents these days, just how safe is
this sport? There is always a element of risk associated with flying
but how does soaring compare with other forms of aviation or
motorsports?

This looks like a troll to me. Lets be careful about what we say.

Here in the USA the media is out to paint general aviation in a bad light. See
the AOPA web site. We should not give them any help.

Robert Mudd

Robert, your comments are certainly true regarding the media, but no
troll here. The intent of my original post was to secure an opinion of
other pilots with much more knowledge than myself regarding the
general safety of the sport. As a low time pilot (100 hrs.)I'm just
trying to listen to those out there with all the experience to assist
with my decision to continue in the sport.

"Michel Talon" wrote in message
...
Asbjorn Hojmark wrote:
On 14 May 2004 00:25:39 GMT, (JJ Sinclair)
wrote:

Shouldn't we be telling these guys exactly what we think?

Absolutely.

Failing to do so, and later seeing those pilots killed, really
ought to make those instructors reconsider whether they should be
instructing at all.


This sort of people, notoriously dangerous people, are very well
warned by instructors and other fellows that they should stop flying.
They decide themselves that they don't want to hear such advice,
and eventually kill themselves. As long as they are not involved in a
mid air and don't kill other pilots (this is rare), it is their life,
after all. Do you have any consideration for the notion of liberty?
Do you beleive you are obliged to protect people against themselves?

Michel TALON

Yes, for three reasons.

1. Accidents provide justification for more regulation.
2. Accidents increase insurance premiums for all of us.
3. Accidents create bad press which reduces our opportunity to grow the
sport.

I would turn it around and suggest that the individual pilot has an
obligation to protect the soaring community at large from the consequences
of his unsafe actions.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels wrote:

Yes, for three reasons.

1. Accidents provide justification for more regulation.
2. Accidents increase insurance premiums for all of us.
3. Accidents create bad press which reduces our opportunity to grow the
sport.

I would turn it around and suggest that the individual pilot has an
obligation to protect the soaring community at large from the consequences
of his unsafe actions.

I don't think so. I think your argument has moral connotations that
i am not sure i like. Generally moralist people are far too much
dangerous for my taste. Gliding (or power flying) is a dangerous sport,
nothing and nobody can change that. There are a lot of other dangerous
sports, like climbing, diving, etc. Unfortunately a lot of people die
each year climbing or diving or even skying. One has to be honest and
say these sports are dangerous, after that, it is each one responsibilty
to take risks or not. One can try to give good advice to fellows, such
as "keep speed" and avoid spin at all price. This will not deter
idiots to fly at stall speed + 1 km/h in order to "better center
thermals", or to spend all their time playing with their GPS, their
Palm and other crap instead of looking outside. Even when you take
all possible precautions there are excellent pilots who kill themselves.
I have known an instructor, who was around 40, in excellent physical
condition, intellectually very alert (he was a medical doctor), an
excellent XC performer, still he crashed in the Alps with his brand
new Schleicher. I have a collegue who has been a glider champion, and
induced his son to also become a champion. At around 20 he killed
himself during a championship. Now the father is desperate.


Bill Daniels


--

Michel TALON

In article ,
(Mot) wrote:

Robert, your comments are certainly true regarding the media, but no
troll here. The intent of my original post was to secure an opinion of
other pilots with much more knowledge than myself regarding the
general safety of the sport. As a low time pilot (100 hrs.)I'm just
trying to listen to those out there with all the experience to assist
with my decision to continue in the sport.

- triple check your controls after rigging, and before 1st flight of the
day

- before takeoff mentally review where you'd go if the tow fails below
200 - 300 ft AGL.

- never be low + slow at the same time (unless you're *planning* to stop
flying).

- always know where you could land safely if you wanted/had to.

- if there are too many other gliders around to keep track of then leave
the area (one might sometimes be too many).

- if you're not aure about the conditions and/or your currency then get
a check flight


There are risks in this sport, but you get to choose to what extent you
expose yourself to them.

Every year this (or a similar) thread shows up on RAS. Basically, it
is "Oh Muh God, people are DIEING!

Step back and take a deep breath; has anything fundamentally changed
in the sport? I don't think so. Soaring has its hazards and that will
not change. If you want to reduce your risk: stop flying! Clearly, the
sport would be better off if some of the pilots did this. Cheer up,
Lennie the Lurker did!

Soaring requires a higher degree of pilot proficiency than powered
flight does. Nothing is going to change that, although technology
might help to a small degree, i.e. collision avoidance devices. Most
accidents, however, don't involve this (like the fatality at Air
Sailing).

The wild card in all of this is how will each individual pilot react
to a real emergency. Sometimes training can simulate an emergency, but
the student will always think, in the back of his/hers mind, that the
instructor will bail him/her out if he/she screws up.

I don't like going to friends funerals anymore than the next guy, but
I'm not willng to give up the sport to eliminate the possibility.

Tom Seim
Richland, WA

The "Cheer up" part... I almost fell off of my chair laughing

My question is... to be a safe pilot you need to be able to react
with the (right stuff) in a choke situation. How do you determine
that quality in an individual?

No matter how good of a technical pilot a person may be... it is the
correct reaction in a "Panic" situation that can make the difference
between a safe pilot and an unfortunate individual.

and then of course there are the deaf blind and stupid folks that run
on luck.

Steve

On 14 May 2004 21:29:36 -0700, (Tom Seim) wrote:

Every year this (or a similar) thread shows up on RAS. Basically, it
is "Oh Muh God, people are DIEING!

Step back and take a deep breath; has anything fundamentally changed
in the sport? I don't think so. Soaring has its hazards and that will
not change. If you want to reduce your risk: stop flying! Clearly, the
sport would be better off if some of the pilots did this. Cheer up,
Lennie the Lurker did!

Soaring requires a higher degree of pilot proficiency than powered
flight does. Nothing is going to change that, although technology
might help to a small degree, i.e. collision avoidance devices. Most
accidents, however, don't involve this (like the fatality at Air
Sailing).

The wild card in all of this is how will each individual pilot react
to a real emergency. Sometimes training can simulate an emergency, but
the student will always think, in the back of his/hers mind, that the
instructor will bail him/her out if he/she screws up.

I don't like going to friends funerals anymore than the next guy, but
I'm not willng to give up the sport to eliminate the possibility.

Tom Seim
Richland, WA

Steve / Sperry wrote:
The "Cheer up" part... I almost fell off of my chair laughing

My question is... to be a safe pilot you need to be able to react
with the (right stuff) in a choke situation. How do you determine
that quality in an individual?

Or, as that famous saying goes, more or less: use your superior
judgement to avoid those "choke" situations. Lots of people fly with
smaller margins than they realize, and sometimes they run out of
margins. It's not just about reacting properly in an emergency, but also
about avoiding it in the first place.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA