SZD-56-2 Diana

Hi Michel,

Concerning the pricing, it is obvious that a Ferrari performance can
not be sold with a Fiat price.
For details you should take a look on the site of US-dealer of Diana,
Jerry Zieba - http://www.dianasailplanes.com/ or write to :


You will find the Diana-2 datas & performances, following the
constructors calculation, he
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/yankee-romeo...ages/perfo.jpg
At this time they are in French, sorry ! But you can already have an
idea of it.

We can speak however about some performances, which were already
confirmed by first test flights.
The behavior at low speed was confirmed as being very well, Diana-2
proved that it may be hold until 60 km/h (32 knots). Seeing the images
from Bielsko, you can easily understand that with this full-size test
pilot, the glider was not at its minimal flying weight... (here a
short thought of those who seem to be obsessed with the small size of
cockpit, and the place which could eventually take theirs behind in
it).
The excellent maneuvrability was confirmed as well.

Yurek wrote:
Hi Michel,

Concerning the pricing, it is obvious that a Ferrari performance can
not be sold with a Fiat price.

Sorry, but the main attraction of a glider built in Poland is that
the work force is much cheaper. I understand that the Diana uses high tech
materials, but this doesn't grant the privilege of charging Ferrari's prices.

For details you should take a look on the site of US-dealer of Diana,
Jerry Zieba - http://www.dianasailplanes.com/ or write to :


You will find the Diana-2 datas & performances, following the
constructors calculation, he
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/yankee-romeo...ages/perfo.jpg
At this time they are in French, sorry ! But you can already have an
idea of it.

I am French so i can read that. I had understood that the Diana 2 was able to
do 50/1 and perhaps 52/1 which is around 10 points better than the Discus,
hence so incredibly wonderful that i cannot even beleive it!


We can speak however about some performances, which were already
confirmed by first test flights.
The behavior at low speed was confirmed as being very well, Diana-2
proved that it may be hold until 60 km/h (32 knots). Seeing the images
from Bielsko, you can easily understand that with this full-size test
pilot, the glider was not at its minimal flying weight... (here a
short thought of those who seem to be obsessed with the small size of
cockpit, and the place which could eventually take theirs behind in
it).
The excellent maneuvrability was confirmed as well.

Yes, this says nothing about the propension to spin. People have discussed
thoroughly this subject here, let me say that if a glider has a confirmed
propension to spin, first people will be killed, and second, clubs will not
buy it, whatever its qualities in other domains. Clubs don't want to kill
their members, and lose their gliders. If the Diana happens to be both
expensive and dangerous, it will not sell, period.


--

Michel TALON

Performance claims for a sailplane (all manufactures)
that has not been independently tested would best always
be taken with a grain of salt. I can recall none that
have lived up to factory claims when tested in real
conditions by a third party.

There are variations, but I think you will find that many of the Polish
sailplanes tested pretty much as advertised. The Polish factories seem to be a
bit less caught up in brochuremanship.
GA

Michel Talon wrote:

Yes, this says nothing about the propension to spin. People have discussed
thoroughly this subject here, let me say that if a glider has a confirmed
propension to spin, first people will be killed, and second, clubs will
not buy it, whatever its qualities in other domains. Clubs don't want to
kill their members, and lose their gliders. If the Diana happens to be
both expensive and dangerous, it will not sell, period.

Sure, like that is the only aspect clubs evaluate. How many clubs fly
Puchacz, Junior, DG-300? A lot. Do they spin? Yes, they do. And these are
only some gliders I have spun personally. I don't think they are dangerous
because they can spin, and considdering the number of clubs that fly these
gliders, neither do "the" clubs. If you do, why don't you buy yourself an
ASK21 and leave it at that?

André

André Somers wrote:
Michel Talon wrote:

Yes, this says nothing about the propension to spin. People have discussed
thoroughly this subject here, let me say that if a glider has a confirmed
propension to spin, first people will be killed, and second, clubs will
not buy it, whatever its qualities in other domains. Clubs don't want to
kill their members, and lose their gliders. If the Diana happens to be
both expensive and dangerous, it will not sell, period.

Sure, like that is the only aspect clubs evaluate. How many clubs fly
Puchacz, Junior, DG-300? A lot. Do they spin? Yes, they do. And these are

I haven't seen a single one in the clubs i know, which are not small clubs.

only some gliders I have spun personally. I don't think they are dangerous
because they can spin, and considdering the number of clubs that fly these
gliders, neither do "the" clubs. If you do, why don't you buy yourself an
ASK21 and leave it at that?

Precisely what these clubs buy, ASK21, TwinAstirs and the like for the
beginners, Janus and DuoDiscus for cross country. Now it seems that you
haven't read the tons of posts about spin exercises in this same newsgroup,
or perhaps the DG300 video, somewhere in Germany that was floating around.
You are above that, this is for dummies and whimps, fine for you.


André

--

Michel TALON

At 12:30 29 January 2005, Michel Talon wrote:
I haven't seen a single one in the clubs i know, which
are not small clubs.

Well in the UK,

Puchaz : Booker, Hus Bos, Aboyne, Trent Valley, Kent
(Challock)

DG 300 : Sutton bank, Crown Service (Lasham based)

Junior : Booker, Hus Bos, Aboyne, Portmoak, Talgarth

And that's only the ones I'm aware of at the big(and
maybe one or two smaller) clubs.

Camphill(home of the 1954 World Championships) 3 puchaz
and one Junior, wolds gliding 1 Puch and 1 Junior..etc
etc ...there are lots out there(including BGA Puch
At 16:00 29 January 2005, John Doe wrote:
At 12:30 29 January 2005, Michel Talon wrote:
I haven't seen a single one in the clubs i know, which
are not small clubs.

Well in the UK,

Puchaz : Booker, Hus Bos, Aboyne, Trent Valley, Kent
(Challock)

DG 300 : Sutton bank, Crown Service (Lasham based)

Junior : Booker, Hus Bos, Aboyne, Portmoak, Talgarth

And that's only the ones I'm aware of at the big(and
maybe one or two smaller) clubs.

All SZD Bielsko gliders are very good. Since the factory became
privatized they are even better. Bottom line. And anybody who has any
doubts about it need to educate themselves. The German sailplane
industry is simply riding on their good reputation. And whoever is
comparing BMW to Honda they need to pause and think for a second....or
maybe 2....or whatever amount of time it takes. At the same time the
German sailplane industry is killing this sport. Plain and simple. Do
you know that LS-8 made by DG nowadays cost 65000 Euros? Maybe in
Germany everybody is rich and they can afford this type of prices but
here in the U.S.....many people making just about 30,000 U.S. Dollars a
year...in some states like Montana or the Dakotas even less....and just
because of the income does this make those guys or gals less qualified
pilots? No, but if the Germans will become more realistic and adjust
the prices to the world level maybe we would have more pilots and those
factories could sell more sailplanes....and then maybe we could see
that pilots with lower income, which translates directly to what they
fly, will prove that is not the amount of money but the pilot
skills...in the mean time the SZD Bielsko is doing excellent job
keeping the prices of their sailplanes on more reasonable level and
anybody who has a problem with that should take golfing..not flying.

Maybe I'm wrong but SZD55's price is at the same level as a DG303 or
Discus CS.
LS8, Discus2 and ASW28 is almost a different class again.

/Jancsika

wrote:
All SZD Bielsko gliders are very good. Since the factory became
privatized they are even better. Bottom line. And anybody who has any
doubts about it need to educate themselves. The German sailplane
industry is simply riding on their good reputation. And whoever is
comparing BMW to Honda they need to pause and think for a second....or
maybe 2....or whatever amount of time it takes. At the same time the
German sailplane industry is killing this sport. Plain and simple. Do
you know that LS-8 made by DG nowadays cost 65000 Euros? Maybe in
Germany everybody is rich and they can afford this type of prices but
here in the U.S.....many people making just about 30,000 U.S. Dollars a
year...in some states like Montana or the Dakotas even less....and just
because of the income does this make those guys or gals less qualified
pilots? No, but if the Germans will become more realistic and adjust
the prices to the world level maybe we would have more pilots and those
factories could sell more sailplanes....and then maybe we could see
that pilots with lower income, which translates directly to what they
fly, will prove that is not the amount of money but the pilot
skills...in the mean time the SZD Bielsko is doing excellent job
keeping the prices of their sailplanes on more reasonable level and
anybody who has a problem with that should take golfing..not flying.