V8 fuel flow

"stol" wrote in message ups.com...
The engine is far from stock. It uses a Ford Motorsports block, cocla
crank. H beam rods, titaniam valves etc. The best stuff one can buy. It
did cost me 12,000+ to build including the redrive but thats far less
expensive then a comparable certified 300 hp motor.If you are a true
motor head you will appreaciate pics of it. here are a few links of the
plane. There are some on Jays, alexisparkinn's site, Beltedairs'site
and www.ch701.com.

http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/builder-pics/bh2.jpg
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/builder-pics/bh1.jpg

Firewallforward weight including a three bladed inflight adj prop is
less then 420 lbs. A little lighter then a fully dressed 0-360Lyc and
twice the power in a detuned state. It is basically a full race sprint
car motor capable of 800+ hp so it is just idleing along,

Ben


Nice looking setup. Where are your radiators and are they and the coolant included in the weight?

Wow is right...what did they have to do to get an
O-360 150 lb over its dry weight to make this comparison?

Dave 'porky' Hyde



Dry weight of an I0-360 is listed as 293#
(http://home1.gte.net/ikvamar/avlinks...s.htm#Engines2)
Add a starter (18#), an alternator (12 #), Prop (30# or so), Vacuum pump,
external oil filter and cooler, The engine mount itself, two magnetos,
....did I forget anything?...

On mine, the FWF total weight is well over 400# and that's with a lot of
experimental stuff to cut weight.

Ron Webb wrote...

Dry weight of an I0-360 is listed as 293#

Dry weight of an O-360, which is what the OP
referred to, is 30 lb less. I contend that
you'd have to work hard to get the FWF above
420 lb.

Do you *really* think accessories and oil
(in flight adjustable prop, not CS) make up
25% of a representative FWF weight?

Dave 'economics of scale' Hyde

"Ron Webb" wrote

Dry weight of an I0-360 is listed as 293#
(http://home1.gte.net/ikvamar/avlinks...s.htm#Engines2)
Add a starter (18#), an alternator (12 #), Prop (30# or so), Vacuum pump,
external oil filter and cooler, The engine mount itself, two magnetos,
...did I forget anything?...

On mine, the FWF total weight is well over 400# and that's with a lot of
experimental stuff to cut weight.


The weight being compared was with a ground adjustable prop, also. How much
that would weigh is...?
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message ...

"Ron Webb" wrote

Dry weight of an I0-360 is listed as 293#
(http://home1.gte.net/ikvamar/avlinks...s.htm#Engines2)
Add a starter (18#), an alternator (12 #), Prop (30# or so), Vacuum pump,
external oil filter and cooler, The engine mount itself, two magnetos,
...did I forget anything?...

On mine, the FWF total weight is well over 400# and that's with a lot of
experimental stuff to cut weight.


The weight being compared was with a ground adjustable prop, also. How much
that would weigh is...?
--
Jim in NC



That is an in-flight adjustable prop, not constant speed but still adjustable. I think the writer is saying the weight
compares favorably with a IO-360 with all accessories and a constant speed prop. The only real operational issue is the
requirement to watch the prop pitch control vs. manifold pressure and twiddle as necessary to set the power; not quite
as easy as a constant speed but configurable never-the-less...

"Blueskies" wrote

That is an in-flight adjustable prop, not constant speed but still
adjustable. I think the writer is saying the weight
compares favorably with a IO-360 with all accessories and a constant speed
prop. The only real operational issue is the
requirement to watch the prop pitch control vs. manifold pressure and
twiddle as necessary to set the power; not quite
as easy as a constant speed but configurable never-the-less...


Right. I think other people's hesitations about the poster saying the V-8
is lighter, is possibly justified. Nevertheless, the possible heavier
weight should be more than offset by the higher HP, and I commend someone
giving alternate power a real, (from how it appears) well thought out
application, a chance to work.

As far as claims of fantastic economy goes, I think that anyone claiming to
be getting *substantially* better than .38 lbs/hp/hr, even with a modern
liquid cooled engine, are suspect.


Good luck to the OP. I wish I were involved in the project. Test test
test, before flying!
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Blueskies" wrote

That is an in-flight adjustable prop, not constant speed but still
adjustable. I think the writer is saying the weight
compares favorably with a IO-360 with all accessories and a
constant speed
prop. The only real operational issue is the
requirement to watch the prop pitch control vs. manifold pressure
and
twiddle as necessary to set the power; not quite
as easy as a constant speed but configurable never-the-less...


Right. I think other people's hesitations about the poster saying
the V-8
is lighter, is possibly justified. Nevertheless, the possible
heavier
weight should be more than offset by the higher HP, and I commend
someone
giving alternate power a real, (from how it appears) well thought out
application, a chance to work.

As far as claims of fantastic economy goes, I think that anyone
claiming to
be getting *substantially* better than .38 lbs/hp/hr, even with a
modern
liquid cooled engine, are suspect.


Good luck to the OP. I wish I were involved in the project. Test
test
test, before flying!
--
Jim in NC

Let me clear up some things. My plane is tied down in its hangar at
almost 7000 feet msl. So the 310 hp is down 22% right off the bat, now
it's at 240 or so. The fuel flow for that HP range is damn close. I
agree that any motor running below .38-.40 is pushing the limit on
thermal dynamics of current technology. I admit that there is some
cutting edge stuff in my motor that helps squeeze out more hp per pound
of fuel. For instance my egt is running 1600 + on takeoff but this also
has an explanation. my probe is in the collector, not the head pipe so
the the egt number looks high for sure. Took me a while to find some
trick collector gaskets that can stand that kind of temp. An aircooled
motor in the low .40 range is kinda hard to believe. Now if they add
some ceramic goodies to their product they might get close. Lyc and
Cont are realizing they are so far behind the tech curve that stating
the FADEC is the future of their aircooled powerplants is like buying a
bridge somewhere. Truth is Horsepower=Heat. The better one converts
that to motion is ahead of the pack. I believe Dave Hyde asked the
question ,How did a 0-360 gain so much weight.Well, lets add things up.
0-360 "Bare" and dry is 293,, Maybe,, add starter,Flywheel, ringgear,
alt, fuel system and pump, fuel lines, shrouds, mags, wiring harness,
brackets, exhaust system, mufflers, heat muffs, Scat tubes, clamps,
oil filter, oil, oil cooler,oil lines,engine mount, cowling, prop,
governor, bolts, nuts, Etc !!!!! I have weighed a Lyc all dressed out
and it is alot heavier then most people think. Only in America can one
create a better flying mouse trap....God Bless the USA !!!!!!!
Ben Haas N801BH Jackson Hole Wyoming

On 17 Jan 2005 19:46:11 -0800, "stol" wrote:

I admit that there is some
cutting edge stuff in my motor that helps squeeze out more hp per pound
of fuel. For instance my egt is running 1600 + on takeoff but this also
has an explanation. my probe is in the collector, not the head pipe so
the the egt number looks high for sure.

Why would that be Ben? Why would the probe being in the collector see
a higher temp than if it (they) were in the header pipe?

Is the fuel setup a bit on the rich side?

Also, it looks like you had the headers coated, which company did you
choose for the process?

Thanks, Corky Scott

Exhaust system was left out.
"Ron Webb" wrote in message
...


Wow is right...what did they have to do to get an
O-360 150 lb over its dry weight to make this comparison?

Dave 'porky' Hyde



Dry weight of an I0-360 is listed as 293#
(http://home1.gte.net/ikvamar/avlinks...s.htm#Engines2)
Add a starter (18#), an alternator (12 #), Prop (30# or so), Vacuum pump,
external oil filter and cooler, The engine mount itself, two magnetos,
...did I forget anything?...

On mine, the FWF total weight is well over 400# and that's with a lot of
experimental stuff to cut weight.

Lean mixture makes the exhaust hotter, not a rich mixture. There was a
good article about egt.s on the web from AERA, tech showing a similar
motor on the dyno. Where the pipes merge at the collector it was
noticably brighter and hotter. I spend a while tonight looking for that
article to give ya the link, darn if I can find it now. Headers came
coated from the manufacturer, Sanderson..