Paint Opinions Wanted!

How does one decide whether to paint an airplane with laquer, enamel,
polyurethane, or two-part epoxy? I've read all the Ron Alexander articles
about painting in Sport Aviation, and I still don't know. (It's an aluminum
floatplane.) Thanks to all those with strong opinions and the will to
express them.

John

"John S" wrote in message
hlink.net...
How does one decide whether to paint an airplane with laquer, enamel,
polyurethane, or two-part epoxy? I've read all the Ron Alexander articles
about painting in Sport Aviation, and I still don't know. (It's an
aluminum
floatplane.) Thanks to all those with strong opinions and the will to
express them.

John

Let's see..

Laquer is easy to spray, but is brittle. Even the smallest rocks will chip
the paint. Laquer will also fail faster if there is any oil canning. This
is probably the least expensive paint system.

I used a catalyzed enamel on my RV. There are several good choices out
there. Some are single stage paints and some are two stage (i.e. you clear
coat them). The two stage paints tend to add a little weight due to the
extra coat of material. Enamels (particularly the catalyzed ones) hold up
well to chemical and phyisical abuse. This is a mid-priced paint system.
These products have top notch gloss and color retention. These products are
somewhat flexible, and will hold up to oil canning and flexing much better
than laquer.

Polyurethanes have the best gloss and color retention, and are more
chemically resistant than the other products. Polyurethanes are very
flexible, and are the least likely to crack when used on surfaces that flex
or oil can. They are the most expensive solution.

All of these are generalizations, and are subject to proper mixing and
application of the paint type. Also, there are high and low quality brands
of each of these types of paint. Earl Scheib ain't spraying the same poly
paint that goes on at the Porsche factory...

Here's a link that I googled up. It might give you a better idea of the
difference between catalyzed enamel and poly paints. Personally, I think
those are the only two alternatives that make sense today.

Heres' the link I promised:

http://www.montanabigsky.com/bigsky.htm

No affiliation, and I've never used their products, but the product
descriptions are informative...

KB

The last time I used enamel I wished I had used the polyurethane
I normally use. Wouldn't have cost any more by the time I got the
coverage I needed, and would have spent less time at it. I use Endura,
and am really happy with it. Goes on much more forgivingly than enamel,
covers well the first time, shines for years.
And is deadly poisonous. Pay attention to the warnings.

Dan

"John S" wrote in message
hlink.net...
How does one decide whether to paint an airplane with laquer, enamel,
polyurethane, or two-part epoxy?

I have no experience with any two part other than poly, but I really do like
poly for the durability. The big thing I want to tell you is that you have
to use great care to protect yourself while spraying poly. It contains
isocyanyde, and can cause permanent liver and nervous system damage.

A mask, or respirator will not filter out this bad stuff. You need a forced
fresh air breathing system. I home brewed one for less than twenty bucks.

Don't shy away from poly because of this. It can be taken care of, quite
easily, and the finish is worth it. There also is a flexible additive that
can be added, but that is not necessary, for metal; just true plastic.
--
Jim in NC

I'm an experienced aircraft painter as well as a retired Auto Body-Man.
If I wasn't sure of what I was doing, but wanted the experience of
Painting my own Aircraft, I'd Go to my Dupont jobber ( Phone Book under
Paint, Automotive) and buy Imron polyurethane, rent a 'supplied Air
respirator', and talk the ears off (asking questions) of the guy behind
the counter that has the experience ( there's always at least one guy)
and KNOW that if it screws up, IE: gets a run, Gets Dirt in it, Gets a
bug in it, goes on too dry, Or you get your pants leg into the wet
paint ( Happens wayyy to often) that in the first 20 hours of Imrons
life, you can color-sand and Buff just about any Goof-up out to
(almost) perfection, Hell, you can even color sand and buff your entire
Airplane to a mirror finish if you Practice on something like a
refrigerator first, start sanding within the first 10 hours, and don't
mind spending 20 to 40 straight hours at hard labor, and your in good
enough shape, and had your Wheaties for Breakfast!
I'd also use Base Coat - Clear coat. While some might argue that the 2
part system (Base coat- Clear coat) is heavier than just simple solid
colors, because... Hey! your putting paint on twice Right? ... Well
my 35 years experience says thats just not true. The Base-coats tends
to cover much quicker and be a very 'thin' coat that you can
'manipulate' to get as close to perfection as possible. Because a good
quality (it should require a 'catalized reducer') Base Coat will dry
almost instantly, minor imperfections can be scuffed out and the area
can be spot re-coated instantly. This is true with Solid colors AND
metallics. Then when the Base coat is satisfactory, the Nature of the
Clear-Coat is that it takes very little to achieve a beautiful gloss.
It's just soo deep and pretty. With Imron I usually do two coats
reduced a little thinner ( Get a viscosity cup from your jobber and
test the paint right before you spray) than normal Automotive work to
try to keep the material build ( Weight) to a minimum. Clear Coats are
not necessary, But if you are thinking of using a metallic color, (and
there are some Very beautiful Metallic colors out there) and you lack
experience, then I recommend Base coat /clear coat system. Makes life
much easier to get the Metallic even in a base coat than trying to
spray single stage paint WET and then coming back over it to even out
the metallic.

Hope this helps.
Jay Markland
Dayton Ohio

In article ,
"Kyle Boatright" wrote:

"John S" wrote in message
hlink.net...
How does one decide whether to paint an airplane with laquer, enamel,
polyurethane, or two-part epoxy? I've read all the Ron Alexander articles
about painting in Sport Aviation, and I still don't know. (It's an
aluminum
floatplane.) Thanks to all those with strong opinions and the will to
express them.

John

Let's see..

Laquer is easy to spray, but is brittle. Even the smallest rocks will chip
the paint. Laquer will also fail faster if there is any oil canning. This
is probably the least expensive paint system.

I used a catalyzed enamel on my RV. There are several good choices out
there. Some are single stage paints and some are two stage (i.e. you clear
coat them). The two stage paints tend to add a little weight due to the
extra coat of material. Enamels (particularly the catalyzed ones) hold up
well to chemical and phyisical abuse. This is a mid-priced paint system.
These products have top notch gloss and color retention. These products are
somewhat flexible, and will hold up to oil canning and flexing much better
than laquer.

Polyurethanes have the best gloss and color retention, and are more
chemically resistant than the other products. Polyurethanes are very
flexible, and are the least likely to crack when used on surfaces that flex
or oil can. They are the most expensive solution.

All of these are generalizations, and are subject to proper mixing and
application of the paint type. Also, there are high and low quality brands
of each of these types of paint. Earl Scheib ain't spraying the same poly
paint that goes on at the Porsche factory...

Here's a link that I googled up. It might give you a better idea of the
difference between catalyzed enamel and poly paints. Personally, I think
those are the only two alternatives that make sense today.

On fabric, I prefer dope, as it is easy to work and easy to touch up. On
metal, I prefer either polyurethane or catalyzed acrylic, as they are
far more durable than enamel or lacquer. I would not use lacquer on
metal, as it has far inferior chip and crack resistance and durability.

You CAN touch up orethane and catalyzed acrylic -- it takes some effort,
but both CAN be sanded and rubbed to look like hand-rubbed lacquer --
all it takes is elbow grease.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

Related to the question of painting is .... priming.
A good "how to" is www.rvproject.com/primer.html

If you are interested in following the detailed progress of an RV-6 building
project see www.rvproject.com/index.html

I too have been wrestling w/ the question of priming and painting and have
concluded "primer" above and "wingsnaprop" below have it right.
Also, Kitplanes magazine (April & May, '05) address painting and spray
booths


"John S" wrote in message
hlink.net...
How does one decide whether to paint an airplane with laquer, enamel,
polyurethane, or two-part epoxy? I've read all the Ron Alexander articles
about painting in Sport Aviation, and I still don't know. (It's an
aluminum
floatplane.) Thanks to all those with strong opinions and the will to
express them.

John

Additionally, what I have found is........
After you track down the Imron/Dupont jobber nearest to your house, get
ready for a road trip because it won't really be near your house......
unless you live in an industrial area surrounded by body & fender & muffler
shops.

The best time to visit these places is during the middle of the work day
when the countermen might be less busy. They may not sell to you anyway
because Imron is supposed to be "for the trade only" because it's
dangerous........ as are the other "industrial coatings."

When you ask about the choice of colors they'll say, "we can match any color
you want".... and point to a book about 3' long divided into sections by car
maker. Don't expect color samples to take home with you, unless they can
find a Dupont brochure (it's in a dusty box up near the rafters) and unless
you are willing to buy it for $20., which I did.

Do expect to be baffled by them rattling off the parts numbers of all the
different cans & bottles of "stuff" that you might need for cleaning,
prepping, finishing, etc.

Don't expect to get the painting equation psyched-out on the first visit to
your "industrial coating" source.

When (if ever) I get to the stage of painting, Imron seems to be the best
way to go.
While on the subject of Imron........ The Green River killer was a painter
at Kenworth Trucks in Seattle. Flecks of Imron on some of the victims helped
to nab Gary Ridgeway.





"larsen-tools" wrote in message
news:Zv7ce.105$%o.100@fed1read05...
Related to the question of painting is .... priming.
A good "how to" is www.rvproject.com/primer.html

If you are interested in following the detailed progress of an RV-6
building
project see www.rvproject.com/index.html

I too have been wrestling w/ the question of priming and painting and have
concluded "primer" above and "wingsnaprop" below have it right.
Also, Kitplanes magazine (April & May, '05) address painting and spray
booths


"John S" wrote in message
hlink.net...
How does one decide whether to paint an airplane with laquer, enamel,
polyurethane, or two-part epoxy? I've read all the Ron Alexander
articles
about painting in Sport Aviation, and I still don't know. (It's an
aluminum
floatplane.) Thanks to all those with strong opinions and the will to
express them.

John

Others have covered lot's of generalizations, but I'd like to add just a
couple more points.
First, painting an aircraft right involves a LOT of time and hard work.
Since I wouldn't want to do it again for a very long time, I would invest in
the type of materials and procedures that would give me the best looking,
longest lasting paint job. Saving a couple hundred bucks on the wrong paint
(lacquer or acrylic enamel are the WRONG paints for aircraft) is false
economy if it means that you would have to repaint much sooner than you
should have to.
Second, the very best paint to use on aircraft is urethane based paints
for reasons others have mentioned. But I'll add one more detail about that
in that even though automotive urethanes are used often and with good
results, keep in mind that cars don't frequently go from mild to freezing
temperatures (and back again) in cycles that might last less than an hour,
nor do they get hit by rain or sand or gravel at 150mph+.
For that reason, I'd look seriously at the PPG Aerospace paints
(formerly DeSoto, bought out by PPG) that are especially formulated urethane
based paints MADE for the tough environment in which aircraft operate.

MJC


"John S" wrote in message
hlink.net...
How does one decide whether to paint an airplane with laquer, enamel,
polyurethane, or two-part epoxy? I've read all the Ron Alexander articles
about painting in Sport Aviation, and I still don't know. (It's an
aluminum
floatplane.) Thanks to all those with strong opinions and the will to
express them.

John