SEEKING WWI PLANE FIGHT ARCHIVAL FOOTAGE....POSTERS

Hello,

I'm helping a researcher for a production company in St. John's,
Newfoundland, Canada. They are producing a documentary on early aviation,
especially WWI and the years following.

I need help as to where to obtain "dog fight" images/video of WWI plane
fights. I know that the Imperial War Museum (Britain) probably has such
archival footage. However, I'm wondering if any other sources, perhaps in
the United States, France, etc. might have such archival WWI film footage?

In addition, I'm seeking WWI posters, regarding the aviation aspect of the
war.

If anyone can help me (as it's rather urgent!), please email me directly at


Thanks in advance for any help that comes my way!


Cynthia

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:54:24 -0400, "Writer - Researcher"
wrote:

Hello,

I'm helping a researcher for a production company in St. John's,
Newfoundland, Canada. They are producing a documentary on early aviation,
especially WWI and the years following.

I need help as to where to obtain "dog fight" images/video of WWI plane
fights. I know that the Imperial War Museum (Britain) probably has such
archival footage. However, I'm wondering if any other sources, perhaps in
the United States, France, etc. might have such archival WWI film footage?

In addition, I'm seeking WWI posters, regarding the aviation aspect of the
war.

If anyone can help me (as it's rather urgent!), please email me directly at


Thanks in advance for any help that comes my way!


Cynthia

Cynthia, I'm not sure any moving pictures of actual dogfights exist.
The film technology of the time, if I've got this correct, involved
large, heavy hand cranked cameras. If such a camera were mounted in
an airplane, there would be no room for a gunner. Without the gunner,
the airplane is simply sweet meat for enemy aircraft. Even the
reconaissance airplanes had defensive weapons.

In addition, why would anyone be up there trying to film something
that could extremely easily result in their own deaths? In order to
get close enough to film an encounter, the film crew would put
themselves in close proximaty to the "enemy". Remember the old axiom
"If the enemy is in range, so are you!" A lone airplane flying
sedately around a combat furball would have been a very seductive
target attracting the eyes of all the enemy pilots who would MUCH
rather attack an unarmed airplane than something that shoots back.

I think there may be film of lone airplanes attacking balloons, I
think there is archival footage of at least one such instance. But
dogfights would be extraordinarily rare to find, and they'd all be
fimed from the ground.

Corky Scott

Cynthia, I'm not sure any moving pictures of actual dogfights exist.
The film technology of the time, if I've got this correct, involved
large, heavy hand cranked cameras. If such a camera were mounted in
an airplane, there would be no room for a gunner.

I agree. moving photography from the period, I imagine, would be very rare
indeed.
Also Britain wasn't very good at propaganda films so the reality actual
combat as movie images didn't really come into being until well into WWII.

The only places I could think of that might be able to help would be the RAF
or the Army Air corps. as it was known then. Though who to approach I
couldn't say. Have you tried any of the military news groups? You could try
Pathe news http://www.britishpathe.com though it might be a bit early even
for them... or perhaps the ministry of defence.

Also...how about Germany? they were big film makers and much more aware of
the value of propganda than we were at the time. Again where to start is
anyone's guess...

good luck

Gail

In article , "Gail"
wrote:

Cynthia, I'm not sure any moving pictures of actual dogfights exist.
The film technology of the time, if I've got this correct, involved
large, heavy hand cranked cameras. If such a camera were mounted in
an airplane, there would be no room for a gunner.

I agree. moving photography from the period, I imagine, would be very rare
indeed.
Also Britain wasn't very good at propaganda films so the reality actual
combat as movie images didn't really come into being until well into WWII.

The only places I could think of that might be able to help would be the RAF
or the Army Air corps. as it was known then. Though who to approach I
couldn't say. Have you tried any of the military news groups? You could try
Pathe news http://www.britishpathe.com though it might be a bit early even
for them... or perhaps the ministry of defence.

Also...how about Germany? they were big film makers and much more aware of
the value of propganda than we were at the time. Again where to start is
anyone's guess...

You young pups!!!
Find a copy of "WINGS".
Granted it isn't actual war footage, but it is actual airplanes flown by
some of the actual pilots who fought in the war.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0018578/...iPXV8cG49MHxrd
z0xfHE9V0lOR1N8ZnQ9MXxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8Y289MXxodG1 sPTF8bm09MQ__;fc=4;ft=2
12;fm=1

Plot Summary for
Wings (1927)

Two young men fall in love for the same same girl. After US enters WWi,
both join the Air Corps and become ace. They remain friends, but the
realtion to the girl threatens their friendship.

Jack works on his sports car and dreams of flying. His neighbor Mary is
in love with him but he seems not to notice, having been smitten by the
fair Sylvia, but he can't see that Sylvia has eyes only for David. The
distant drums of war beckon, and Jack and David train to be pilots in
the American Expeditionary Corp. Their rivalry soon evolves into
camaraderie as they do aerial battle with the Germans in the skies over
France. Meanwhile Mary has joined the Women's Motor Corp and despairs
that Jack doesn't notice her.

"john smith" wrote in message ...
In article , "Gail"
wrote:

Cynthia, I'm not sure any moving pictures of actual dogfights exist.
The film technology of the time, if I've got this correct, involved
large, heavy hand cranked cameras. If such a camera were mounted in
an airplane, there would be no room for a gunner.

I agree. moving photography from the period, I imagine, would be very rare
indeed.
Also Britain wasn't very good at propaganda films so the reality actual
combat as movie images didn't really come into being until well into WWII.

The only places I could think of that might be able to help would be the RAF
or the Army Air corps. as it was known then. Though who to approach I
couldn't say. Have you tried any of the military news groups? You could try
Pathe news http://www.britishpathe.com though it might be a bit early even
for them... or perhaps the ministry of defence.

Also...how about Germany? they were big film makers and much more aware of
the value of propganda than we were at the time. Again where to start is
anyone's guess...

You young pups!!!
Find a copy of "WINGS".
Granted it isn't actual war footage, but it is actual airplanes flown by
some of the actual pilots who fought in the war.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0018578/...iPXV8cG49MHxrd
z0xfHE9V0lOR1N8ZnQ9MXxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8Y289MXxodG1 sPTF8bm09MQ__;fc=4;ft=2
12;fm=1

Plot Summary for
Wings (1927)

Two young men fall in love for the same same girl. After US enters WWi,
both join the Air Corps and become ace. They remain friends, but the
realtion to the girl threatens their friendship.

Jack works on his sports car and dreams of flying. His neighbor Mary is
in love with him but he seems not to notice, having been smitten by the
fair Sylvia, but he can't see that Sylvia has eyes only for David. The
distant drums of war beckon, and Jack and David train to be pilots in
the American Expeditionary Corp. Their rivalry soon evolves into
camaraderie as they do aerial battle with the Germans in the skies over
France. Meanwhile Mary has joined the Women's Motor Corp and despairs
that Jack doesn't notice her.

Is this the movie that Howard Hughes financed? IIRC, in "The Aviator" they opened the film by showing him on the set
of this movie. The video clips were neat!



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Writer - Researcher wrote:

I need help as to where to obtain "dog fight" images/video of WWI plane
fights. I know that the Imperial War Museum (Britain) probably has such
archival footage. However, I'm wondering if any other sources, perhaps in
the United States, France, etc. might have such archival WWI film footage?

You won't find movies of actual combat, partially for the reasons Corky
provides. In addition, Britain forbad any photography of any of their equipment
in action. One pilot did violate this regulation, and one of his photos has been
colorized and used as the cover for the Jane's Aircraft book of this period. One
of the side effects of this regulation is that there are excellent photographs
of German engines in Jane's, but all of the shots of British engines are wrecks.

I *have* seen some footage of German and French aircraft taking off (and it's
amazing how rapidly a Fokker D-7 gets off the ground). Check with the Deutsches
Museum in Munich for info about German archives. The Imperial War Museum at
Duxford may also have some stuff. I don't know where one would find French movies.

In addition, I'm seeking WWI posters, regarding the aviation aspect of the
war

Google returns many hits for +poster +WWI +air. Here're two.
http://www.snapshotsofthepast.com
http://www.worldwar1.com/posters.htm

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

("john smith" wrote)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0018578/...iPXV8cG49MHxrd
z0xfHE9V0lOR1N8ZnQ9MXxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8Y289MXxodG1 sPTF8bm09MQ__;fc=4;ft=2
12;fm=1

What the #*%^ it that? :-)


I had to copy the quoted link (above), open a fresh post, dump it in there,
clean up link, if possible (sometimes they don't clean up so well), copy it
....again, dump it in my web browser, hit enter, and then see what happens???

If 'one person' (OP) cleans up their link, then 1,400 people don't have to
do it on their end. g

http://makeashorterlink.com/?U21F525EB
(same link as below ...wait for it)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0018578/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnx0dD0xfGZiPXV8cG49MHxrdz0xfHE9V0lOR1 N8ZnQ9MXxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8Y289MXxodG1sPTF8bm09MQ__ ;fc=4;ft=212;fm=1

link seems to work pretty well too.


Montblack
"Wings" (1927) doubleplus good - especially the gay Canadian guy :-)

The Huges film was Hells Angels. I am guessing Wings predated it by a
decade or so. Both are definitely worth watching.

"JJS" jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net wrote in message
...

" Is this the movie that Howard Hughes financed? IIRC, in "The Aviator"
they opened the film by showing him on the set
of this movie. The video clips were neat!

Sidebar:
A replica WWI fighter crashed at The Museum of the United States Air
Force this morning. The privately owned aircraft was taking part in the
annual Dawn Patrol fly-in hosted each year at this time by the museum.
The pilot was taken to a local hospital.

Newsreel footage at the time of supposed dogfights in progress were all
staged, usually at training fields far from the action. This made good
training for the young pilots, and a somewhat controllable environment
for the camerman. Actual footage in the skies during battle would have
been insane.

AJH