Runway Numbering - Radio Procedure

"John T" wrote in message
m...
"Mike W." wrote in message


If you hear 'runway zero', then you know you have missed something in
the transmission.

Similarly, if you're in the pattern for runway 20 and you hear somebody
announce "[your airport] traffic, N123 base, runway 2[garbled]", you can
assume you've missed something. You still haven't made a case for using
anything but the numbers painted on the runway.



Well, yes, the case is easy to make.

If everybody used the leading zero all the time, then you KNOW FOR SURE
anytime you hear less than two digits, then you have missed something.

If the leading zero is NOT used and you hear only ONE digit, then you have
no way of knowing whether you missed something, or not.

Shortening a direction-based entity in this way is unnatural and causes
confusion. Even the FAA's own NACO chart-selection web site, uses the
leading zeros in the index, and then omits them on the charts..

Why does announcing "Runway Two Zero" allow the last digit to be cut off
while announcing "Runway "Zero Two" prevents the last digit from being cut
off?

It doesn't. It prevents the last digit from being cut off =unawares=.
It acts as a checksum of sorts. If all runways are two digits, then any
transmission missing a digit is suspect. If some are one and some are
two, then there are some cases where an error would not be noted; this
is especially the case with runway 2-20, both of which exist on most
airports for which one exists.

Jose
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I once flew to an ratehr rundown airport with a 2-20. The Unicom was
so badly garbled that I even after asking Unicom to "say again" three
or four times, I had no idea whether the guy was saying "zero two" or
"two zero."

"Runway one plus one, or runway ten plus ten?"

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
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.... this is especially the case with runway 2-20, both of which exist on most
airports for which one exists.

I once flew to an ratehr rundown airport with a 2-20. The Unicom was
so badly garbled that I even after asking Unicom to "say again" three
or four times, I had no idea whether the guy was saying "zero two" or
"two zero."

No wind tee, wind sock to bedraggled to make out from pattern
altitude.

Based on winds in the general area, I suspected he was saying "zero
two" so I asked him "Runway 2?" and he came back with the same number
of garbled sylables as before.

Hearing no other traffic after two circuits, I finally just landed on
runway 2 and tried to teach the guy how to announce runways.

Had he said "Runway two," I would have known from the number of
syllables which runway he meant.

vince norris

"Jose" wrote in message
.. .

It doesn't. It prevents the last digit from being cut off =unawares=. It
acts as a checksum of sorts. If all runways are two digits, then any
transmission missing a digit is suspect. If some are one and some are
two, then there are some cases where an error would not be noted; this is
especially the case with runway 2-20, both of which exist on most airports
for which one exists.


Wouldn't the gap in the transmission do that?

It doesn't. It prevents the last digit from being cut off =unawares=. It
acts as a checksum of sorts. If all runways are two digits, then any
transmission missing a digit is suspect. If some are one and some are
two, then there are some cases where an error would not be noted; this is
especially the case with runway 2-20, both of which exist on most airports
for which one exists.


Wouldn't the gap in the transmission do that?

Maybe. But not certainly. People don't always speak with the same
cadence, so time is a poor checksum.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Mike W." wrote in message
...

If you hear 'runway zero', then you know you have missed something in the
transmission.


Two things, actually, the runway and the airport.

If you hear 'runway zero', then you know you have missed something in the
transmission.
Two things, actually, the runway and the airport.


Yes, but missing the airport does not imply a transmission error. The
airport simply may not have been transmitted. Poor form, but not a data
error.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
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Hi Jose. I like your checksum argument. It's two digits for me from now
on, and we should urge everyone to adopt this convention.

Hi Jose. I like your checksum argument. It's two digits for me from now
on, and we should urge everyone to adopt this convention.

It's actually somebody else's idea, though I recognized it as like a
checksum. However, "zero two" and "two zero" can be confused with each
other even when each is clearly heard.

You've all heard of the dyslexic agnostic insomniac? He stayed up all
night wondering if there really was a dog.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.