Anyone dissapointed with Oshgosh?

In article , cal
(BD5ER) writes:

Earth to "bd5er", the ratio of "non-aviation commercial BS" to
aviation related stuff at Oshkosh is EXCEEDINGLY SMALL.

Earth to David: Can you count. Last time I attended I could walk down an
entire row in the flymart and not see a single aviatiion related booth. The
ratiio of aviation to BS HAS changed over the last 20 years. If I want all
that other BS I'll just attend the local county fair.


A lot of things have changed over the last 20 years and AirVenture is no
exception. I have attended for the last 5 years and yes, the flymart has a lot
of non-aviation related vendors. So what, I don't go to Oshkosh for the
flymart to begin with and make one quick pass to look at odds and ends of tools
and hardware. Aside from that, I don't care whats there and can't understand
why you do either. On the other hand, most of those non-aviation businesses
were making sales to someone or they wouldn't be there.

Understand this, the show will NEVER return to those lazy good ol'
days of yore when homebuilts were the biggest part of the show.

Then I may never return. Homebuilts is why I went. If that is not the main
attraction I'm not going to waste my time. Large numbers of people is not
really my "thing" but if they were there to talk HOMEBUILDING, and not plug
the isle up in front of the waterless cookware demo, than the more the
better.


Then its your loss because obviously you are not looking in the right places.
There is plenty at Oshkosh for everyone who attends if they are willing.

As for http://www.sportaviation.org/ :

He couldn't keep control of one organization and keep it on track (if that
was
ever the intent) so what is there to make me think this group isn't headed
down
the same track?


It is a free world, you should start your own organization and show us how it
should be done. If you are not willing to do that where do you come off being
critical of those who are trying?

The only true homebuilt oriented flyins any more seem to be the little "type"
fly-ins. I'd love to look at Piets, T-18, Kr's, old Aeroncas, Swifts,
....the list goes on. Oshkosh WAS the place to go to see all of that but now
if you
want to actually talk to the owner and look under the cowl you have to fly to
a
few dozen type events to do the same thing. With the "Airventure" trying to
be
all things to all people it's original usefullness has been lost. When I
first
went it was rare to see a plane roped off so you couldn't walk up and look
inside or crawl under the wing to look at some datail. But then we didn't
have
the hoards of uneducated people ripping the planes apart due to ignorance.


I have attended a number of smaller regional flyins over the years and I
enjoyed them very much. They did not however give me anywhere near the
opportunities to see the variety of aircraft and talk with half as many
builders. They also didn't even begin to provide the educational forums that
are available at Oshkosh.

If you think the "Airventure" is so great the way it is, that's fine with me.

But I either feel kind of sorry for you that you missed the "good 'ol days",
or
wounder why you didn't really appreciate what we had and don't want to share
the good times with others again.


I feel sorry for you. You are either unable or unwilling to look beyond the
superficial aspects of AirVenture and look for those items which you are
interested in. AirVenture is what those who attend make it.

As for the cop-out catch all - "but it brings new people into, and promote,
general aviation". That IMHO opinion is NOT the job of the annual EAA fly
in.
That job is yours and mine, every day of the year.



Yes, it is yours and mine but it is also the EAA's and every organization that
is in aviation. Now, either deal with the change or isolate yourself in the
past.



Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

On 14 Aug 2003 17:48:02 -0700, (Lou Parker) wrote:

I'm building a wood and fabric plane and would have loved to talk to
others about their planes but there were none to be found. I looked
for manufacturers of wooden kits but only Fisher had the gonads to
show their product.
If the wood kits are as good as we are led to believe, why don?t they
show us what they have to offer? I was told by my EAA adviser, that
all I would have to do is finish the plane and show up and I would win
every award given to the wooden builder. Now I know why.
Very Disappointed
Lou


I was disappointed too. There was far too much for me to see and too
many people to talk to. I wish it had lasted two weeks.

This lovely (wooden) Pietenpol was my favorite plane this year.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ousterj/oshkosh03.html

- John Ousterhout -

"John Ousterhout"
wrote in message ...
[...]
This lovely (wooden) Pietenpol was my favorite plane this year.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ousterj/oshkosh03.html

- John Ousterhout -



Oh, delightful! Thanks agains and no Gator or cookie this time.

I feel sorry for you. You are either unable or unwilling to look beyond the
superficial aspects of AirVenture and look for those items which you are
interested in.

Don't. I don't feel like I'm missing anything and I've managed to find other
sources of information to feed my homebuilding desires. It's just kind of sad
that Airventure isn't the airplane builders "overload" that Oshkosh was. It was
nice after a week to go home exhausted from "too many homebuilts, too little
time". The forums are still great but as for the homebuilts, sure there are
lots of them there, but without the owners around to talk to or being able to
get close you might as well look at the pretty pictures in SA.

Now, either deal with the change or isolate yourself in the
past.

I'm the last person to object to change - but only change for the better. I
don't think Airventure is as good as Oshkosh. One way of dealing with change
that you don't like is to let those in charge know that you don't like it - and
why. If they choose not to alter their way of doing things so be it. Let them
keep loosing money.

He couldn't keep control of one organization and keep it on track (if that
was
ever the intent) so what is there to make me think this group isn't headed
down
the same track?


It is a free world, you should start your own organization and show us how it
should be done. If you are not willing to do that where do you come off
being
critical of those who are trying?

This isn't criticism. It was/is a question. If it proves to be more in line
with the old EAA I just might start supporting it. Fool me once - shame on
you. Fool me twice........

I'm going to wait and see.

In article , David O says...

The FAA database shows the owner's name as Tom Wright. After I
published the pages last year, someone noted that the paint scheme on
the Bellanca is very similar to the one on the P-40 at the Kalamazoo
Air Zoo in Michigan.


Yeah, Tom Wright. He told me he actually asked for permission to paint
the plane like their P-40... think the actual owner is a woman (of the
P-40, I mean).

Ron Wanttaja then remarked, "I actually talked to the owner [of the
Bellanca] there. His intent was just to have something different.
Kinda like the Cessna 140 I saw years ago with an FW-190 paint job."

Tom is a heck of a guy. He had all the usual resto photos on his Bellanca.
I could have stayed and talked to him for hours, but there's always
someone else... some other plane, some other story.

Your news software should have an
option to limit the lines you compose to 70 characters.

I am posting through a ****ty web interface, and it doesn't give me any
options. Time to hunt up a real news reader again. Thanks. I
tried chopping this one by hand. (*^#$^) technology.

cheers

-=K=-

Rule #1: Don't hit anything big.

In article , Kevin Horton says...

Actually, the wings on the DH Vampire were metal. "The DH-100 was of an
all metal construction apart from the cockpit section which was made from
ply and balsa wood as in the de Havilland Mosquito".

Boy, I hate being wrong. Thanks for the correction though. I thought it was a
wood wing, alloy fuse thing (rather like the 163) when it actually is t'other
way
round, then. With the fuse also alloy from about where the turbojet sits.

cheers

-=K=-

Rule #1: Don't hit anything big.

..
"John Ousterhout" wrote in message
...
On 14 Aug 2003 17:48:02 -0700, (Lou Parker) wrote:

snip

This lovely (wooden) Pietenpol was my favorite plane this year.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ousterj/oshkosh03.html

- John Ousterhout -




Oh No, Woodstock it dead?

Long live Woodstock!

Cy Galley wrote:
A full time job 40 hours a week for 50 weeks is only 2000 hours. At least
that is the labor department's definition. Actually anything over 32 hours a
week qualifies in most states for full time benefits.

I think I can talk about a teacher's day and amount of work having retired
after 39 years of service. Most teacher's days start before the children
arrive and cannot leave until about an hour afterwards. As a math teacher I
always had papers that I took home to grade, tests to write and work sheets
to cover what the text book didn't. Mandatory unpaid supervision of ball
games, compulsory attendance and dues for PTA, Open houses and
teacher-parent conferences on my time, plus unpaid start up days. I found
that I could not take a second job even though the salary really wasn't
enough to support my family as the little extras necessary for my job didn't
leave the time.

I also carried a union card in the carpenters union so I could work and
support my family when I was locked out of teaching during the summer. This
also provided unemployment payments if the carpenters had no work. Could not
collect as a teacher if laid off for even a reduction of staff but as a
union carpenter I was eligible to collect unemployment during the Christmas
break. Go figure!

Also there were mandatory educational courses just to maintain current wages
AT teacher expense. Getting an advanced degree to improve the salary was
done at teacher expense for tuition, books living expenses and travel costs.

All tax deductible of course...
With all the holidays etc. teacher get off it all works out so don't try
to kid us about how much time you spend at work. It has been figured out
to the penny here in Oregon how much time teachers spend at work each
year and it is much less that the average worker does. don't take this
wrong teaching is a noble and necessary profession and there are some
really good teachers out there but many are very misguided on how and
what to teach now days.

Daughter who is currently on active duty as a Lt Col with the USAF got all
that paid for plus her active duty salary when she got her Engineering
Masters from Stanford.

Did either of my kids become teachers?

In article v_M%a.168993$uu5.26937@sccrnsc04, "Cy Galley"
writes:


Did either of my kids become teachers?



If they did...you were not a very good teacher! ;-)

Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

In article . net, Jerry
Springer writes:


All tax deductible of course...
With all the holidays etc. teacher get off it all works out so don't try
to kid us about how much time you spend at work. It has been figured out
to the penny here in Oregon how much time teachers spend at work each
year and it is much less that the average worker does. don't take this
wrong teaching is a noble and necessary profession and there are some
really good teachers out there but many are very misguided on how and
what to teach now days.


Would you trade in all your benefits to become a teacher? I doubt it.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)