Shafted by the Transport Canada?

wrote:

We're not all jerks.

Dan

No argument from me there, Dan. I only take issue with those who
behave like they are.

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
wrote:
This morning I received a letter from Transport Canada informing me I
am being fined $250 for not filing a flight plan. I had flown from
Minot, ND to Regina, Canada on July 30, 2005. I had meticulously
planned the flight using the AOPA webpage on the subject (got all the
radio station permits, customs decal, etc.). I am absolutely sure that
I had filed and activated a VFR flight plan for that flight. I had a
squawk code and was getting flight following, but when I landed in
Canada the FSS couldn't find my flight plan to close it. I was
informed of the investigation by a phone call about a month after the
flight. Conveniently for Transport Canada, Minot ATC erases their
tapes after two weeks according to the manager of the Minot FSS. I
submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the Great
Lakes Regional FSS as soon as I heard of the investigation in September
2005. As expected, Great Lakes said they don't keep records long
enough to fill my request. BTW, they were terrible to deal with. The
FOIA woman never answers her phone and never returned any of my calls.
The only response from Great Lakes FSS was a letter in February 2006
saying they no longer had records for that time period.

So, basically Canada says I didn't file a flight plan and I don't have
any way of proving that I did. Anybody have any ideas on how to
dispute this or had a similar experience? (AOPA Legal was no help.
Their only suggestion was the FOIA request.)


This may be a tough one. U.S. and Canada both say you need a flight
plan, but they do not say that it is sufficient to file the flight plan
with one country and assume that it will be transmitted to the other
country. The best thing would have been to file two flight plans and
activate the second one as you cross the border.

NY FSS has a recorded advisory to contact an FSS in whatever country you're
flying to immediately after entering their airspace and to advise the
briefer that you have this advisory. I gather they don't do this where you
fly from. It;s not uncommon for the information to go missing.

moo

The issue was resolved in a discussion with a manager at Transport
Canada. I explained how I had tried to gather proof of the filing and
activation of the flight plan and how I had filed and activated plans
for all the other legs in Canada. Also, I explained how I had even
tried to close the flight plan after landing in Canada.

The regional manager dropped the case stating there was insufficient
evidence. I found the officials in Canada very responsive to my calls
(unlike the FOIA people) and the issue was resolved a lot quicker than
I expected. The bottom line is you might want to file IFR if going to
Canada.






Ken Chaddock wrote:
wrote:

This morning I received a letter from Transport Canada informing me I
am being fined $250 for not filing a flight plan. I had flown from
Minot, ND to Regina, Canada on July 30, 2005. I had meticulously
planned the flight using the AOPA webpage on the subject (got all the
radio station permits, customs decal, etc.). I am absolutely sure that
I had filed and activated a VFR flight plan for that flight. I had a
squawk code and was getting flight following, but when I landed in
Canada the FSS couldn't find my flight plan to close it. I was
informed of the investigation by a phone call about a month after the
flight. Conveniently for Transport Canada, Minot ATC erases their
tapes after two weeks according to the manager of the Minot FSS. I
submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the Great
Lakes Regional FSS as soon as I heard of the investigation in September
2005. As expected, Great Lakes said they don't keep records long
enough to fill my request. BTW, they were terrible to deal with. The
FOIA woman never answers her phone and never returned any of my calls.
The only response from Great Lakes FSS was a letter in February 2006
saying they no longer had records for that time period.

So, basically Canada says I didn't file a flight plan and I don't have
any way of proving that I did. Anybody have any ideas on how to
dispute this or had a similar experience? (AOPA Legal was no help.
Their only suggestion was the FOIA request.)

Thanks,
Bob

Well Bob I'm sorry for you, but it doesn't sound much to me like you
are being shafted by Transport Canada more so by Minot FSS, Great Lakes
Regional FSS and the "FOIA woman" who won't answer or return your calls.
What do you expect Transport Canada to do...take your word for it ?
They have no record of your flight plan...considering the level of
service you've received from you own FSS people so far I'd speculate
that it probably wasn't passed on to NavCan...and now your own FSS
people can't/won't confirm that you actually DID file one...from
Transport Canada's perspective you NEVER DID file a flight plan...

...Ken

Recently, posted:

The issue was resolved in a discussion with a manager at Transport
Canada. I explained how I had tried to gather proof of the filing and
activation of the flight plan and how I had filed and activated plans
for all the other legs in Canada. Also, I explained how I had even
tried to close the flight plan after landing in Canada.

The regional manager dropped the case stating there was insufficient
evidence. I found the officials in Canada very responsive to my calls
(unlike the FOIA people) and the issue was resolved a lot quicker than
I expected. The bottom line is you might want to file IFR if going to
Canada.

Out of curiosity... what is the difference between filing IFR vs. VFR for
such flights? The problem you ran into appears to be a loss of
documentation that you had filed, not which way you had filed. The
procedure that I follow is to contact CanPass as part of the flight
planning. At that point, they know you've filed, and the details of those
records stand for a long time.

Neil

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
So much for all the "screw 'em!" responses, eh?

Nawh, now it just turns into a gun thread...

No a flight plan must be filed when crossing an international border.

No you don't.
When flying from Columbus, Ohio to Port Huron, Michigan, I overfly
Ontario to get there without filing a flight plan. I don't even talk to
anyone the whole route.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
No a flight plan must be filed when crossing an international border.

No you don't.
When flying from Columbus, Ohio to Port Huron, Michigan, I overfly
Ontario to get there without filing a flight plan. I don't even talk to
anyone the whole route.

well done for waking up!

"john smith" wrote in message
...
No a flight plan must be filed when crossing an international border.

No you don't.
When flying from Columbus, Ohio to Port Huron, Michigan, I overfly
Ontario to get there without filing a flight plan. I don't even talk to
anyone the whole route.

Explain why you aren't aware of this:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/pu...71/FAL/2-0.htm
"Private aircraft overflying or landing in Canada for non-commercial
purposes need not obtain prior permission; however, a flight plan must be
filed."

Common sense should tell you that what you state as fact is a bad idea. Did
you ask anyone or otherwise try to educate yourself on this issue before
taking off?

FYI, as one might suspect, it's the same in the States:

http://www.faa.gov/ats/aat/ifim/ifimcaai.htm

Especially since 9/11, and especially in the USA, a pilot is in serious ****
if they enter foreign airspace and in really deep **** if they land without
following proper procedures. How does that affect your decision making
process vis a vis some problem that doesn't absolutely require a diversion
but might suggest a prudent brief stop to check something out?

moo

In article ,
"Happy Dog" wrote:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/pu...71/FAL/2-0.htm

What date did that go into effect?
Not including Lake Eric and Lake St Claire, I cross maybe five miles of
Canadian soil.

"john smith" wrote in message
In article ,
"Happy Dog" wrote:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/pu...71/FAL/2-0.htm

What date did that go into effect?

Dunno. Ask them.

Not including Lake Eric and Lake St Claire, I cross maybe five miles of
Canadian soil.

You really shouldn't make this sort of public statement.

moo