LONDON

Biz trip to London - leaving this weekend. Thinking of doing some
flying there. I'm an American PP-SEL-IA. Suggestions on where to go, etc.?

Thanks!

Paul

Biz trip to London - leaving this weekend. Thinking of doing some
flying there. I'm an American PP-SEL-IA. Suggestions on where to go, etc.?

I presume you are talking about London England, not Ontario...

(I hate to be picky...but how about a more descriptive subject line?)

Last time I was in the UK, I flew with a CFI out of Norwich airport.
Was about $225/hour-ish for a PA28 + CFI. About 2 hrs NE of London,
a bit far for you, but you get the idea.

Plenty of places to go fly...
Once you get there, open the phone book and call a few flight schools.
FYI, London is basically a Massive "Class B" type area...you may have
to get a little ways out of town to find what you want.

If you have time, check out Duxford air museum aka Imperial War
Museum, near Cambridge. UK equivalent of Wright-Pat.


Best of luck...Don
Don Byrer
Commercial Pilot / CFI Student
Electronics Technician, RADAR/Data/Comm @ CLE
Amateur Radio KJ5KB

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"I know what it sounds like....when doves cry" (Bird Strike 8/29/05)

I'm a WWII buff, and there's an airfield/museum a short Tube ride from
London that I hanker to see. http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/

My certificate isn't good outside the U.S., so I can't help you there.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

If you have time, check out Duxford air museum aka Imperial War
Museum, near Cambridge. UK equivalent of Wright-Pat.

.... and the Shuttleworth(?) collection.

Cub Driver wrote:
I'm a WWII buff, and there's an airfield/museum a short Tube ride from
London that I hanker to see. http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/

My certificate isn't good outside the U.S., so I can't help you there.

Why is that? SP?

Don Byrer wrote:
Biz trip to London - leaving this weekend. Thinking of doing some
flying there. I'm an American PP-SEL-IA. Suggestions on where to go, etc.?


I presume you are talking about London England, not Ontario...

(I hate to be picky...but how about a more descriptive subject line?)

Well, then quit being picky.

Just kidding. :-} I figured "London, UK" would be the "default".
Thanks for the info.



Last time I was in the UK, I flew with a CFI out of Norwich airport.
Was about $225/hour-ish for a PA28 + CFI. About 2 hrs NE of London,
a bit far for you, but you get the idea.

Plenty of places to go fly...
Once you get there, open the phone book and call a few flight schools.
FYI, London is basically a Massive "Class B" type area...you may have
to get a little ways out of town to find what you want.

If you have time, check out Duxford air museum aka Imperial War
Museum, near Cambridge. UK equivalent of Wright-Pat.


Best of luck...Don
Don Byrer
Commercial Pilot / CFI Student
Electronics Technician, RADAR/Data/Comm @ CLE
Amateur Radio KJ5KB

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"I know what it sounds like....when doves cry" (Bird Strike 8/29/05)

john smith wrote:
If you have time, check out Duxford air museum aka Imperial War
Museum, near Cambridge. UK equivalent of Wright-Pat.

... and the Shuttleworth(?) collection.
There's a flying school (was ) based there in 1987.
Great place !

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
...
Cub Driver wrote:
I'm a WWII buff, and there's an airfield/museum a short Tube ride from
London that I hanker to see. http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/

My certificate isn't good outside the U.S., so I can't help you there.

Why is that? SP?

Lets clear up a few misunderstandings.

1. The airspace around London (Heathrow) is Class A from the surface to
heaven and so its a no go area.

2. A FAA certificate is good to go in the UK. There is no conversion
required, no exam to take and no inspector to see. Bring the medical and the
logbook too. All you need to fly is someone prepared to let you have his
pride and joy.

3. Renting a plane will require a checkride from a school and this may take
some time just to get familiar with both the R/T and the airspace limits.

4. Airports in class D airspace are treated as though they are in US class
B. There is no Class E and class C.

5. A FAA IR is of no use in a UK registered aircraft. Its considered to be
as worthwhile as toilet paper. It can be used in a N reg though as though
you are in the US. But N regs cannot be rented out as a general rule. That
means borrowing a privately owned plane. An FAA Commercial certificate is
worth the same as a private. Take a cent using it and it's jail time.
Special permission is required and its not normally given. In practice that
means Day VFR only. There is no such thing as night VFR in the UK. Its
either special VFR or IR. A specific night rating is required for night
flight.

6. Duxford Imperial war museum is a great place to go and visit and has a
superb american museum. However its not a short tube ride from London. Its
a train ride to Cambridge and an expensive taxi ride to Duxford. The best
way to get to Duxford is to fly in and I would suggest that if you want to
fly, have the checkout / accompanied trip to Duxford.

7. If you do get to fly be prepared for landing fees and for gas at $7 a
gallon.

8. Google the following airfields
White Waltham, Denham,Elstree,Stapleford, Biggin Hill, Fairoaks. These are
airfield that surround London starting from the Western edge of the Class A
going clockwise to the southern edge.

Otherwise go here if you want to look further afield. This will give you
some indicative costs. (it will make you cry).
http://www.flyer.co.uk/directory/

9. Any violations are strictly dealt with. The CAA prosecutes in court you
get fined, and get to pay their costs as well as your own. They might also
seek to have your ticket pulled. There is no such thing as administrative
action. Foul up and its a criminal matter.

10. R/T procedure is very strict. The likelihood for being permitted to
enter controlled airspace is all down to the first call. Sound as though you
know what you are doing, then you might be OK. Otherwise be prepared for
that magical phrase "remain clear of controlled airspace". An alternative
plan is always required.

11. Around London all aircraft are operating between 1500ft MSL and 2500ft
MSL (the lower limit of the class A shelf). Its gets a bit unnerving
especially on a nice day when everyone seems to be flying.

12. There is no such thing as a Unicom frequency and there is no common air
to air frequency. Radio contact is with whoever you want, or no one. Just
keep a good look out.

13. For some of the best views of the London skyline, its hard to beat for
some of the English scenery its also hard to beat.

14. Fly with someone else and share the look out duties and enjoy the view.

15. Around London all airfield tend to have unique traffic patterns either
to remain outside the class A or avoiding irritating the neighbours. At my
airfield, Elstree, the downwid leg is flown about three miles from the
runway, and the start of the final approach is four miles from the
threshold. Its a big pattern. http://www.egtr.net/byair.php
(They also have a training pattern, which changes during the day and that
leaves a two mile final).

Chris

I'm f---ing happy I don't live in the UK.

Chris wrote:
"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
...

Cub Driver wrote:

I'm a WWII buff, and there's an airfield/museum a short Tube ride from
London that I hanker to see. http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/

My certificate isn't good outside the U.S., so I can't help you there.

Why is that? SP?


Lets clear up a few misunderstandings.

1. The airspace around London (Heathrow) is Class A from the surface to
heaven and so its a no go area.

2. A FAA certificate is good to go in the UK. There is no conversion
required, no exam to take and no inspector to see. Bring the medical and the
logbook too. All you need to fly is someone prepared to let you have his
pride and joy.

3. Renting a plane will require a checkride from a school and this may take
some time just to get familiar with both the R/T and the airspace limits.

4. Airports in class D airspace are treated as though they are in US class
B. There is no Class E and class C.

5. A FAA IR is of no use in a UK registered aircraft. Its considered to be
as worthwhile as toilet paper. It can be used in a N reg though as though
you are in the US. But N regs cannot be rented out as a general rule. That
means borrowing a privately owned plane. An FAA Commercial certificate is
worth the same as a private. Take a cent using it and it's jail time.
Special permission is required and its not normally given. In practice that
means Day VFR only. There is no such thing as night VFR in the UK. Its
either special VFR or IR. A specific night rating is required for night
flight.

6. Duxford Imperial war museum is a great place to go and visit and has a
superb american museum. However its not a short tube ride from London. Its
a train ride to Cambridge and an expensive taxi ride to Duxford. The best
way to get to Duxford is to fly in and I would suggest that if you want to
fly, have the checkout / accompanied trip to Duxford.

7. If you do get to fly be prepared for landing fees and for gas at $7 a
gallon.

8. Google the following airfields
White Waltham, Denham,Elstree,Stapleford, Biggin Hill, Fairoaks. These are
airfield that surround London starting from the Western edge of the Class A
going clockwise to the southern edge.

Otherwise go here if you want to look further afield. This will give you
some indicative costs. (it will make you cry).
http://www.flyer.co.uk/directory/

9. Any violations are strictly dealt with. The CAA prosecutes in court you
get fined, and get to pay their costs as well as your own. They might also
seek to have your ticket pulled. There is no such thing as administrative
action. Foul up and its a criminal matter.

10. R/T procedure is very strict. The likelihood for being permitted to
enter controlled airspace is all down to the first call. Sound as though you
know what you are doing, then you might be OK. Otherwise be prepared for
that magical phrase "remain clear of controlled airspace". An alternative
plan is always required.

11. Around London all aircraft are operating between 1500ft MSL and 2500ft
MSL (the lower limit of the class A shelf). Its gets a bit unnerving
especially on a nice day when everyone seems to be flying.

12. There is no such thing as a Unicom frequency and there is no common air
to air frequency. Radio contact is with whoever you want, or no one. Just
keep a good look out.

13. For some of the best views of the London skyline, its hard to beat for
some of the English scenery its also hard to beat.

14. Fly with someone else and share the look out duties and enjoy the view.

15. Around London all airfield tend to have unique traffic patterns either
to remain outside the class A or avoiding irritating the neighbours. At my
airfield, Elstree, the downwid leg is flown about three miles from the
runway, and the start of the final approach is four miles from the
threshold. Its a big pattern. http://www.egtr.net/byair.php
(They also have a training pattern, which changes during the day and that
leaves a two mile final).

Chris

A few years ago I flew out of Old Sarum Flying Club near Salisbury.
Allegedly the oldest airfield in England in it's original configuration.
Grass over chalk. Farnborough's older but has obviously grown with the
population.

Your US license is good to go; I only had a short time there, so rather than
get checked out for solo, I just went for an hour with an instructor, just
so I could have a UK entry in my logbook. At the time, rental costs for a
'66 172 were like $200/hr US, not counting the instructor. !!!


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
...
Biz trip to London - leaving this weekend. Thinking of doing some flying
there. I'm an American PP-SEL-IA. Suggestions on where to go, etc.?

Thanks!

Paul