Using automobile gas with ethanol

Apparently congress has mandated that all automobile shall be mixed
with ethanol in the near future. Are there airplane engines that can
use this fuel? Or ways to mitigate the problems caused by ethanol?

An article on EAA says there are three issues with ethanol
(http://www.eaa.org/education/fuel/knopp_alcohol.html)

-First, the addition of alcohol to gasoline adversely affects the
volatility of the fuel, which could cause vapor lock.

-Second, alcohol present in automobile gasoline is not compatible with
the rubber seals and materials used in aircraft.

-Third, phase separation, which happens when the fuel is cooled as a
result of the aircraft's climbing to higher altitude. When the
alcohol separates from the gasoline, it may carry water that has been
held in solution and that cannot be handled by the sediment bowl.

On 23 Apr 2006 22:21:15 -0700, wrote:

Apparently congress has mandated that all automobile shall be mixed
with ethanol in the near future. Are there airplane engines that can
use this fuel? Or ways to mitigate the problems caused by ethanol?

An article on EAA says there are three issues with ethanol
(http://www.eaa.org/education/fuel/knopp_alcohol.html)

-First, the addition of alcohol to gasoline adversely affects the
volatility of the fuel, which could cause vapor lock.

-Second, alcohol present in automobile gasoline is not compatible with
the rubber seals and materials used in aircraft.

-Third, phase separation, which happens when the fuel is cooled as a
result of the aircraft's climbing to higher altitude. When the
alcohol separates from the gasoline, it may carry water that has been
held in solution and that cannot be handled by the sediment bowl.


I've heard speculation the ethanol and aluminum gas tanks produce a
deposit; water is absorbed by the alcohol and cause corrosion in the
tank. No idea if that's true and to what extent. The Stromberg carb.
in my A-65 needs to be examined for rubber-tipped needles (believe
associated with the float valve) - Mike

Congress did not mandate all automobile fule to be mixed with ethanol.
What's mandated is all the metro area that're currently using MTBE as
oxygenate to reduce air pollution shall switch to ethanol as an
oxygenate.

For the areas that're NOT currently required to have oxygenated
gasoline, there's no federal requirement to add ethanol into the fuel.
Certain states may have separate ethanol requirements.

Honestly, the ethanol industry in this country doesn't even have the
produciton capacity to supply a nation wide ethanol mix of 2%. They
can barely supply the current requirement the replace MTBE in those
metro areas and the ethanol price is shooting through the roof.

"M" wrote in message
oups.com...
Honestly, the ethanol industry in this country doesn't even have the
produciton capacity to supply a nation wide ethanol mix of 2%. They
can barely supply the current requirement the replace MTBE in those
metro areas and the ethanol price is shooting through the roof.

odd, I could swear all the pumps in wisconsin have placards on them warning
buyers that the gas has 10% ethanol in them

I've been contemplating switching some vehicles over to 100% ethanol, and
grow my own, to kill off the demand for it at the pump. if the demand is
high does than mean seed corn is going to skyrocket too?

remember seeing a 100% ethanol plane at oshkosh, so it cannot be impossible
to convert.

Tater Schuld wrote:
"M" wrote in message
oups.com...
Honestly, the ethanol industry in this country doesn't even have the
produciton capacity to supply a nation wide ethanol mix of 2%. They
can barely supply the current requirement the replace MTBE in those
metro areas and the ethanol price is shooting through the roof.

odd, I could swear all the pumps in wisconsin have placards on them warning
buyers that the gas has 10% ethanol in them

Do the placards read the gas contains that, or something like "may
contain up to 10%"?

Also, it may be the gas station chains simply post the notices on all
pumps... just speculation on my part.

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:44:31 -0500, Jim Carriere
wrote:

Tater Schuld wrote:
odd, I could swear all the pumps in wisconsin have placards on them warning
buyers that the gas has 10% ethanol in them

Do the placards read the gas contains that, or something like "may
contain up to 10%"?

Also, it may be the gas station chains simply post the notices on all
pumps... just speculation on my part.

For those who are interested, I included the procedure for testing for alcohol
in my last EAA chapter newsletter. See page 5 on:

http://www.eaa26.org/apr06.pdf

Ron Wanttaja

I see those placards saying "may contain up to 10% ethanol" a lot in
Washington state. However as of today most of the gasoline sold here
does not contain any ethanol. The reason is ethanol is expensive to
blend into the fuel because it needs to be transported in trucks or
barges from ethanol producing states.

One of the interesting thing is Winsconsin has quite a few number of
airports that sell mogas, according to
http://www.chouby.com/apps/autogas.html

Since autogas STC prohibits ethanol in the fuel, this seems to indicate
that those airports somehow can get autogas free of ethanol.

On 25 Apr 2006 21:45:13 -0700, "M" wrote:

I see those placards saying "may contain up to 10% ethanol" a lot in
Washington state. However as of today most of the gasoline sold here
does not contain any ethanol. The reason is ethanol is expensive to
blend into the fuel because it needs to be transported in trucks or
barges from ethanol producing states.

I tanked up here in Seattle just last Saturday, filling my cans at the local
Chevron station. I ran the test...the gas was clear. However, I have detected
alcohol in the past in cases where the pumps indicated that the gas would NOT
contain booze....

Ron Wanttaja

FYI, here in Pennsylvania, where until recently I drove a tank-truck
delivering fuel, the "branded" SUNOCO is blended 10% etanol in all
grades. I know of no other retailers selling ethanol-blend unless they
buy blended specifically, from SUNOCO.

However, several of the convenience stores have placarded their pumps:
"...may contain ethanol" in anticipation of perhaps buying the blend.

We hauled the ethanol (denatured with addition of 2% gasoline) 9200
gallons per load, 100 miles from Philadelphia (rail and sea-port
terminal) to the SUNOCO bulk-plant (pipeline terminal) in
Mechanicsburg, at the rate oif three or four loads daily. So there is
some use (demand) for the stuff. Most ethanol arrived by ship.