MOA's

It may be of interest to some to watch the happenings of what is going on
wrt Luke AFB in Arizona and their impression of our holding a contest here
for 6 days that will involve traversing some MOA's. It seems that their
commander pretty much feels that we really don't belong there and are a
clear safety threat to their pilots and aircraft and are creating a large
burden on their ability to train their pilots.

Considering MOA's are a substantial portion of our states airspace it
results in a perceived if not certain conflict of interest between the
government and cross country pilots. Several other contests that I have
been a part of included MOA's e.g. Littlefield and Hobbs.

Our local Phoenix newspaper has interviewed the Luke commander and he has
been anything but kind in his evaluation of the matter:
http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...light24Z2.html

Casey Lenox
Phoenix

Casey,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. This reminds me of another
airspace grab, a few years ago, when Mike and I went to Philmont Scout
Camp, in Cimmaron, NM for a twelve day backpack trek.
At the time, the latest airspace grab by the Air Force, and widely
discussed in the local papers, was right over Philmont.
One day as we were hiking I heard that initial whistle of a jet
engine, and a couple of seconds later here comes, at tree top level,
going mighty fast, and loud, was an f-16, and a f-15. My first thought
was, why do they need this airspace, now, over this established land?
You guys stick with the fight Casey. I don't believe for a second that
the Academy guys pulled out in protest. They were probably told to pull
out.
You know why Asia needs pilots, from the west to fill their cockpits,
and train their pilots? Because the military controls all the airspace,
and thus there has never been any kind, of general aviation for the kid
sitting on the fence, to go to.

I thought that I left all of this unpleasant "grab for power" on the
other side of the pond but I think I was wrong....stick to your fight
guys.

Jacek
Washington State

Kilo Charlie wrote:
It may be of interest to some to watch the happenings of what is going on
wrt Luke AFB in Arizona and their impression of our holding a contest here
for 6 days that will involve traversing some MOA's. It seems that their
commander pretty much feels that we really don't belong there and are a
clear safety threat to their pilots and aircraft and are creating a large
burden on their ability to train their pilots.

Considering MOA's are a substantial portion of our states airspace it
results in a perceived if not certain conflict of interest between the
government and cross country pilots. Several other contests that I have
been a part of included MOA's e.g. Littlefield and Hobbs.

The Region 8 contests have used MOA airspace every year for decades, for
both regional and national contests. In our area, the military's major
concern is conflicts on the low level routes, which are mostly outside
the MOA's, and we get a briefing on these before each contest.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

What do you expect from someone who (reportedly) said "...they have to
go where the wind is."

We know where the REAL 'wind' is!

Eric Greenwell wrote:
Kilo Charlie wrote:
It may be of interest to some to watch the happenings of what is going on
wrt Luke AFB in Arizona and their impression of our holding a contest here
for 6 days that will involve traversing some MOA's. It seems that their
commander pretty much feels that we really don't belong there and are a
clear safety threat to their pilots and aircraft and are creating a large
burden on their ability to train their pilots.

Considering MOA's are a substantial portion of our states airspace it
results in a perceived if not certain conflict of interest between the
government and cross country pilots. Several other contests that I have
been a part of included MOA's e.g. Littlefield and Hobbs.

The Region 8 contests have used MOA airspace every year for decades, for
both regional and national contests. In our area, the military's major
concern is conflicts on the low level routes, which are mostly outside
the MOA's, and we get a briefing on these before each contest.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

It was unfortunate since we've had a good discussion going on between
ASA and Luke AFB for three months and the persons complaining didn't
bother to check with their own liaison personnel or us before firing
complaints off in every direction - to the FAA, local city managers and
the press.

For Region 9, we'd agreed to avoid tasking completely in one MOA and to
avoid one sector of another one and requested in return they keep
military aircraft above glider operating altitudes for the three hours
or so on the four days we'll be in potential conflict in the two
remaining segments. (For the last couple of days, top of the boundary
layer has been below the MOA floor of 7,000 feet) We'd also agreed to
use steering turns to move gliders further away from training and
approach areas.

Rewards for this cooperation are threats to close down our glider field
permanently and requests to the FAA to ban gliders from MOAs
completely.

No good deed goes unpunished!

Mike

At 18:30 25 May 2006, Mike The Strike wrote:
It was unfortunate since we've had a good discussion
going on between
ASA and Luke AFB for three months and the persons complaining
didn't
bother to check with their own liaison personnel or
us before firing
complaints off in every direction - to the FAA, local
city managers and
the press.

For Region 9, we'd agreed to avoid tasking completely
in one MOA and to
avoid one sector of another one and requested in return
they keep
military aircraft above glider operating altitudes
for the three hours
or so on the four days we'll be in potential conflict
in the two
remaining segments. (For the last couple of days,
top of the boundary
layer has been below the MOA floor of 7,000 feet)
We'd also agreed to
use steering turns to move gliders further away from
training and
approach areas.

Rewards for this cooperation are threats to close down
our glider field
permanently and requests to the FAA to ban gliders
from MOAs
completely.

No good deed goes unpunished!

Mike



I would keep AOPA advised of any airport and/or MOA
threats coming out of Luke AFB. AOPA has the clout
of numbers to get FAA's attention. A military recommendation
to close MOA’s to any civilian aircraft is a serious
matter.

Gary Evans wrote:
At 18:30 25 May 2006, Mike The Strike wrote:

It was unfortunate since we've had a good discussion
going on between
ASA and Luke AFB for three months and the persons complaining
didn't
bother to check with their own liaison personnel or
us before firing
complaints off in every direction - to the FAA, local
city managers and
the press.

For Region 9, we'd agreed to avoid tasking completely
in one MOA and to
avoid one sector of another one and requested in return
they keep
military aircraft above glider operating altitudes
for the three hours
or so on the four days we'll be in potential conflict
in the two
remaining segments. (For the last couple of days,
top of the boundary
layer has been below the MOA floor of 7,000 feet)
We'd also agreed to
use steering turns to move gliders further away from
training and
approach areas.

Rewards for this cooperation are threats to close down
our glider field
permanently and requests to the FAA to ban gliders

from MOAs

completely.

No good deed goes unpunished!

Mike




I would keep AOPA advised of any airport and/or MOA
threats coming out of Luke AFB. AOPA has the clout
of numbers to get FAA's attention. A military recommendation
to close MOA’s to any civilian aircraft is a serious
matter.



The regional AOPA rep has been CC'd on all discussions and corespondence.

Even though glider pilots represent a small part of AOPA's membership,
they have been very pro-active in our area in helping to ward off some
proposed airspace restrictions. Our local AOPA rep is great and
understands glider operations.

Mike

I can verify for everyone that the soaring program at the Air Force
Academy had nothing to do with their pulling out of the contest. Their
OIC called me last night from Moriarty where they've been training for
the last week, and he was mortified about what has happened. His staff
and cadets were really looking forward to the contest, and now they've
been screwed by their chain of command. A real shame that they got used
as a political football in this way.

~ted/2NO